U.S.A vs the world. Let's gooooooooo!

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[–] 9 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Ah yes, let's open the Straight up by... Blockading it?

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Iran is making money by sending its own ships through the strait.

    So trump wants to block them to weaken Iran.

    Every analyst I've seen talkjng about Iran has mentioned this as an option, but all of them have added that it's such a stupid idea that it's unlikely an option due to the further impact on oil, fertilizer, helium, etc. prices..

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I'm just pointing out the ridiculousness of this all. Since the Trump admin has been saying one of their highest priorities is opening the Straight (that they caused to be closed in the first place) and then they are going to do the one thing that closes it even more.

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  • 90 comments in c/politics@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] [S] 92 points 7 months ago (39 children)

    Fuck sake, now he's threatening third-party vessels with his malevolent idiocy. This is a big misstep of an escalation, no?

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (4 children)

    This is a big misstep of an escalation, no?

    Always has been

    In all seriousness, is he expecting the US Navy to fire on civilian vessels? I'd bet we're nearing a point of mutiny on some ships

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    That's what they've been doing inthe Carribean

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago*

    From a geopolitical perspective, attacking a Venezuela-registered fishing boat is fundamentally different from attacking a Chinese- or Indian-registered oil tanker. Most of the boats they've attacked in the Caribbean were actually stateless and weren't registered anywhere

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  • [+] -35 points 7 months ago (33 children)

    I’d say it’s the only somewhat smart play he has left

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  • [–] 43 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    It's the sort of move that might look like a clever reversal, but ultimately has a very steep price tag.

    A blockade is an act of war, and this one is clearly pointed at the rest of the world, not Iran. It's predicated on the same faulty assumption that Trump's administration made when invading Iran: our military is unanswerable, and they will take it lying down.

    Escalation paths from this are all bad-- what if an EU ship ignores challenges from a US Navy vessel, or China sends a military escort with a shipping fleet? Are we really about to start another shooting war, or will we stand there with our dicks in our hands as they sail by?

    I'm thinking this brilliant idea is abandoned in a week.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    If they were even somewhat smart, they’d be blocking just Iranian shipping.

    Still less dumb and less war crimes than bombing civilian infrastructure

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    If they were even somewhat smart, we wouldn't be there and isntreal would be cut off from all trade globally or states doing businesses with them would be sanctioned, like USA is doing with Cuba.

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  • [–] [S] 44 points 7 months ago

    How is it smart? Honest question, because it strikes me as pissing off the countries that charter those ships as well as the oil companies (boo hoo, but they have pull with all their money).

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  • [–] 27 points 7 months ago (23 children)

    That doesn't make any logical sense...

    The only "smart play" is fucking off and leaving Israel to deal with the chaos alone.

    Which is the inevitable next step the evangelical extremists will want with Israel. They're trying to bring about Armageddon and the last step in their myth is for all of Israels neighbors to unite and wipe them off the map.

    They want Armageddon in their lifetimes, their support of Israel has always had a baked in end date. Because Israel getting destroyed is required before they think they'll be raptured.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    If Israel becomes a smoking crater and there's no rapture, will the evangelicals finally come to the realization they've been living in a fairy tale?

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    trump already has a weird insistince they all wear the same shoes...

    I'm just saying, there's a very real chance if they're not "called to heaven" that they take the initiative to ringing the doorbell on a mass scale.

    Like, I don't know how far you've looked into their rabbit hole, but there's lots of wriggle room around "suicides don't go to heaven". Something like going 150 on the interstate and letting go of the wheel could easily be rationalized as "this was always God's plan". Or just some version of Russian roulette, any random chance can be seen as God's hand.

    This isn't the first time a doomsday prophecy falls thru, it's gonna go like it always does.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    This isn't the first time a doomsday prophecy falls thru, it's gonna go like it always does.

    Yeah but I feel like the scale of this one might be a smidge bigger than the others. Combined.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Only because you're living thru this one, which is the same logical fallacy as when 2,000 years of Christians have all been convinced Jesus is coming back in their lifetime, and so will the next 2,000 years of Christians.

    Shit that's happening around us currently always seem like a bigger deal, because to us it is, because it's happening to us right now.

    Zoom out and start thinking as "humanity" and not "I" and none of this shit is really that new.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah but I’ve lived through several others that never felt this big - Y2K, Mayan calendar, lots of smaller groups or religious zealots, probably other shit I’m forgetting. I think the big difference was that none of them possessed the means to bring it about themselves if they were sundowning. Which is a distinct possibility this time around.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    Y2K

    Y2K was a real thing that was going to happen if an absolute shit ton of people hadn't have fixed it...

    And how many Mayan's did you know who thought the world was ending?

    Like, none of your examples are the same thing, you don't understand this but don't want to ask questions, so I'm not sure why you even replied.

    If you don't want anything explained, I can makes sure I don't accidentally do that HIn.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (12 children)

    Question is, if you’re Ronald McDonald and simply pull out, and Iran keeps asking for a toll, you just get a pure loss. A blockade is the only way, that maybe, you can improve your negotiating position for “cheap”. It will backfire for sure though

    Obviously the smart play was not to invade at all

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Second smartest is GTFO but as was reminded me elsewhere, big, fat, unhealthy ID running the ego can't countenance that.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    I mean it is not just trump, republicans can remove him… they choose to allow him to stay in power

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago* (5 children)

    A blockade is the only way, that maybe, you can improve your negotiating position for “cheap”

    Negotiating position for...

    What?

    Everything trump wants, he already had.

    What he wants now is the strait to be open, it's only closed because they're attacking Iran. If they stopped attacking Iran and fucked off, why would Iran keep blocking the strait?

    No one, especially Iran, want the strait blocked. Iran is blocking it because that's their leverage to get the war to stop

    If trump blocks the fucking strait, what do you think his condition is? You think he's gonna demand Iran that they stop being attacked? Iran already wants to stop having war crimes committed against them, they can't want to stop the war crimes anymore.

    Where the actual fuck are you getting any of your information on about this conflict?

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Try to think like the great dumbass for a minute:

    Iran has said they want to keep the toll system in place after the war

    Therefore if you just leave now, everyone will be very mad at you at toll

    Therefore only way out is escalating. An invasion is expensive, unpopular, and unlikely to work. They’re already bombing Iran, so not that.

    What remains is a naval blockade. Because they’re dumbasses, they didn’t just decide to block Iranian shipping, but instead essentially block all remaining shipping.

    It’s less dumb than other options, and less war crimes and killing civilians

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

    I’d say it’s the only somewhat smart play he has left

    That's what you said, that is false.

    I'm worried you've rambled on for so long you've forgotten what you're even trying to defend

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago*

    There is another smart play.

    Give Iran something it wants that actually benefits Americans.

    You might think there isn’t anything but there is one:

    Stop supporting Israel fully.

    But they won’t cause the Epstein class is either compromised or in on it.

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  • [–] 64 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    From "OPEN THE FUCKING STRAIT OR WE'LL BOMB YOU TO THE STONE-AGE" to "lol no, now I'll block the strait" 🤪🤡

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago*

    If they thought of it 5 weeks ago, maybe that wouldn't be as terrible idea.

    Same with providing the insurance coverage right away, so ships wouldn't stop the movement.

    But we are dealing with geniuses here. I mean trump's uncle was in MIT so obviously trump has to be smart. /s

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  • [–] 44 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I'm not an expert here, but considering that he is literally threatening other nations' vessels in international waters, I'm wondering at what point the actions of the US Navy to "interdict every vessel" would constitute an act of war.

    Hopefully the rest of the world increases the pressure on Trump and the US since it looks very much like he's completely to blame for the rising oil costs around the globe.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    I don't think that was a terrible idea. Iran set up an AyaTOLLah, if US would stop the ships that Iran allowed Iran wouldn't be able to charge ships for passing. It would also be hurting by this closure and motivated to have the straight open.

    But that would make sense to do it 5 weeks ago not now.

    And before that if they would provide insurance for carriers immediately as well, preventing movement from stopping maybe it would prevent the closure altogether.

    But trump instead lifted sanctions on Iran and Russia for some reason.

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  • [–] 30 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    Are... are the ceasefire talks in the room with us now, Donnie?

    Edit: Trump Was Watching a U.F.C. Fight in Miami While Iran Talks Collapsed

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  • [–] 23 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Jesus Christ, this guy is a god damned lunatic. He doesn't want to lead the free world, he yearns to be a banana republic dictator. And he's trying like hell to turn us into exactly that.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    The banana republic dictators were installed by the US and acted in line with US interests. It was only a matter of time that the repression tactics used there would find their way back home. Fascism is imperialism turned inward.

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  • [–] 18 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Is this the same "illegal toll" that Trump wants to be a joint venture?

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  • [+] 17 points 7 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 17 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    This doesn't hurt Iran at all, it just makes the problem worse for everyone else. All this will accomplish is loading more international pressure on the United States to end the conflict immediately with major concessions to Iran.

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  • [–] 15 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    good thing the military is prepared to refuse orders andohwait nevermind.

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  • [–] 14 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    Yeah, anyone who thought that was remotely a possibility of happening is completely fucking naive.

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  • [–] -3 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    Or they know it can happen because they've done it themselves and maybe even put down ten toes down on a mutiny charge...

    But I'm sure you've got a lot of experience with the process and know all about how it works.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    hey then why didn't they do it in regards to Venezuela lol they already had the opportunity to refuse illegal orders.

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  • [–] -3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

    ...

    I mean this is just a fundamental flaw in logic...

    The same bigots always fall back:

    If not all of ____ are bad, why are some ____ bad?!

    Do you understand that as a larger point?

    Not a lot of hope here, but this is a very big thing and lots of people seem to be missing those these days

    Like, that's not even getting into how when someone refuses an order, you don't hear that there even was an order.

    You just have no idea what you're talking about, or any frame of reference.

    Just opinions and an internet connection

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    i literally don't know what you're talking about. you seem to be responding to something else entirely with your own interpretation. you said that "they know it can happen," i replied with "then why hasn't it yet when it should have?"

    are you alright

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah, I don’t have experience with this kind of stuff. But I am an American citizen with a working pair of eyes. And I see a military gleefully carrying out ALL of the orders of a fascist, domestic enemy of the state who has been corrupted by multiple foreign powers. If the military had even an ounce of moral conviction, we wouldn’t be in Iran, and we wouldn’t have extrajudicially kidnapped the leader of Venezuela. But they don’t, and here we are. But hey, thanks to the very VERY few who did the absolute bare minimum.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago

    And I see a military gleefully carrying out ALL of the orders

    No, you only see them following orders, because the system is built so no one sees when someone doesn't.

    But hey, thanks to the very VERY few who did the absolute bare minimum.

    Again, you're assuming you see everything happening at all levels of our military, which is such a naive take, anyone making it (even if they themselves are high level military) would be so naive and uninformed, it's not just dangerous to listen to them, it's dangerous to let anyone listen to them.

    Which is why I'm bothering to type these replies knowing most people still won't understand the specifics.

    It's worth the effort even tho I know it's not likely to work.

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  • [–] 14 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    If a ship refuses to follow orders is USA going to blow it up?

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago

    Stephen Miller is the worst President in our nation's history.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago*

    There you go, my new brilliant plan, that should solve the problem easy peasy.
    It will be so funny when China or France or any other country don't even complain about it because of how brilliant I am.
    -Trump.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago

    Yep, Sunday fits Trump's weekly stock market manipulation cycle. I have an uncanny feeling a team with a combined portfolio of real estate development, private equity, and venture capital interests didn't go into this with true diplomatic intentions.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago

    Dump and pump. Next week while markets are closed there will magically be positive negotiations again and the strait will once again “open”.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    this makes no sense?! he was incensed the Strait was closed, but is now keeping the Strait closed?! How much more madness must we endure at the hands of these idiots?

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago

    After Vance FAILED to achieve an agreement. And Trump FAILED to unblock the Strait, so he's screaming "You can't block it, I'm gonna block it!" as he stamps his tiny feet.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago

    Who was opposed to The usa being world police again?

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago

    Trump also said the U.S. was ready to “finish up” Iran at the “appropriate moment,” stressing that Tehran’s nuclear ambitions were at the core of the failure to end the war.

    Good thing we completely decimated their nuclear program many months back. That should make it much easier to finish the illegal war.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    And thanks to the fact that 90% of the US armed forces are MAGA dipshits, we can be rest assured that literally no one will refuse to carry out these orders, and any other increasingly unhinged commands that may come in the near future.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I actually have feeling that he TACOd out of nuking Iran because military refused the orders. Firing those generals (of which one was chaplain) during the war is extremely suspicious.

    BTW blocking the strait if they did it right away, would prevent Iran setting up a tollbooth and would motivate Iran to also want the strait open, but those geniuses thought of it 6 weeks later after lifting sanctions on Iran and Russia.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    What? The US block the strait? First of all, they can't, for the exact same reason that couldn't keep it open: Iran will fuck up their ships! Second, closing the strait hurts the US more than it hurts Iran, which is why Iran closed it: maximum economic pressure. Third, what Trump is talking about now is just piracy: intercepting ships that have paid Iran for passage. The US navy doesn't have to be anywhere near the strait for that, but it puts them in direct conflict with allies and (stronger) rivals. This is just more Trump flailing.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    I'm not saying it makes sense now. I'm just saying that if they reacted quickly enough they wouldn't allow Iran to set up toll booth and use their territorial waters to redirect traffic.

    If Iran had to decide to have it completely blocked or open it would make it a less powerful card.

    At this moment pretty much only Iran is expecting oil and Don Tzu even removed sanctions so they can sell their oil to anyone at market value.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    Your not gonna blockade. I am. Said some orange geriatric toddler.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    When will we reach the point where trump will threatened the president of the usa for not doing what he wants.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago

    Actual US military directions/rules are more sensible than initial tweet. But after they posted, Trump has said that any boat he doesn't like will be treated like Carribean fishing vessels. Insurance needs policy to last 7 or more days, and insurance currently requires paying Iran a toll (coordinated by insurance company, for shipper convenience). There is a big difference between ordering or seizing a ship temporarily and blowing it up. Military direction is just that ships will be required permission or denied.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago

    Well this should be interesting but as always, TACO.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    I know it's kind of sexist, but I keep thinking they are talking about the "Strait of Hormones" and that all these fat old men are just having Irritable Male Syndrome, just with more missiles and death than if women were in charge.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    Under whose fucking authority??

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