In English, the word "milk" has been used to refer to "milk-like plant juices" since 1200 CE.[11]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_milk

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[–] 71 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Wait, are you telling me milk thistle doesn’t come from cows?

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  • [–] 39 points 9 months ago (6 children)
  • [–] 50 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    Coconuts have fur and produce milk. Definitely a mammal

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  • [–] -5 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    Eh... It definitively doesn't have fur. Are you talking about some interstitial tissue?

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  • [–] 18 points 9 months ago

    Give me milk of the poppy and let me die!

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  • [–] 17 points 9 months ago

    Nobody ever seemed to consider the implications for Milk of Magnesia

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  • [–] 15 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    You're just hopped up on milk of paradise from the poppy for thinking this.

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Thats bit of history is super cool, thanks for sharing! I will remember that

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    There's so much interesting history with plant-milks! For the west, almond milk has an especially long history. Here's an article about how there was a whole sensation around it in medieval Europe

    Outside the west, soy milk has a very long history too.

    A tofu broth (doufujiang) c. 1365 was used during the Mongol Yuan.[1][2] As doujiang, this drink remains a common watery form of soy milk in China, usually prepared from fresh soybeans. The compendium of Materia Medica, which was completed in 1578, also has an evaluation of soymilk. Its use increased during the Qing dynasty, apparently due to the discovery that gently heating doujiang for at least 90 minutes hydrolyzed or helped to break down its undesirable raffinose and stachyose, oligosaccharides, which can cause flatulence and digestive pain among lactose-intolerant adults.[14][15] By the 18th century, it was common enough that street vendors were hawking it;[16] in the 19th, it was also common to take a cup to tofu shops to get hot, fresh doujiang for breakfast. It was already often paired with youtiao, which was dipped into it.[17]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soy_milk#History

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I studied medieval recipes for specials when I was a chef. What a mindfuck to learn you need a grænde quontitye o almunde mylk afore ye smote þy pig.

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  • [–] [S] 8 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Yep! It grew popular in medieval Europe periods during lent, but it ended up going far beyond that

    But the sheer number of recipes from the Middle Ages that use almond milk, particularly those that combine it with (decidedly un-Lenten) meat, makes it clear that chefs came to regard it as a staple instead of just an alternative ingredient. Almonds turn up everywhere; in the first extant German cookbook, Das Buch von Guter Spise, dating to around 1350, almost a quarter of the recipes call for it.

    [...]

    Almond milk appeared in more overtly sweet dishes, too. A strawberry pudding could be made by soaking strawberries in wine, then grinding the mixture together with almond milk, sugar, and an assortment of spices, before boiling it all to thicken it.

    [...]

    Describing the diet of a pair of priests in 15th century Dorset in her book Food in Medieval Times, Professor Melitta Weiss Adamson, of the University of Western Ontario, writes that “almond milk must have played a significant role in their diet judging from the quantities of almonds bought.” She calls the late Medieval world’s appetite for almond milk not just a “love,” but an “addiction.”

    https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/almond-milk-obsession-origins-middle-ages

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    Orange juice is now called orange milk because now they're just milking it. /s

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  • [+] -24 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (23 children)

    Y'all love an argument from etymology when it's something you have an ideological interest in. Otherwise, of course, you're all "it doesn't matter what it used to mean - language usage changes literally everyday bro so you should use it the way I want you to".

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    Is it an argument from etymology to say "this has been called milk for hundreds of years and continues to be called milk so it is reasonable to call it milk"

    Or is it just descriptivism?

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  • [–] 20 points 9 months ago* (11 children)

    That works for the plant milk folk here. "Language changes literally everyday bro" arguments fall apart pretty quick:

    "Milk changed back to include plants, bro."

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  • [+] -17 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (10 children)

    Not according to the UK. Also, thanks for proving my point.

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  • [–] 19 points 9 months ago* (9 children)

    "Language changes unless my favored language authority says it doesn't." I honestly do not understand how you could take a perscriptive stance in FAVOR of language changes. It's pretty much like looking at 1984 and saying "yes, this is the correct way of language evolution."

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  • [+] -15 points 9 months ago* (8 children)

    That's exactly what's wrong with this post - thanks for putting it so succinctly.

    Edit in response to your edit: you have no idea what my stance is, because I haven't stated one other than "y'all are hypocrites".

    Completely aside from the post, as a linguist my stance is always "language always changes, and meaning is determined by usage", because both of those positions are demonstrably correct.

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  • [–] 16 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    This post is prescriptive based on etymology. You're being prescriptive based on regulation. You're not making a descriptive argument that would be strong in this case(but wrong because casual usage DOES include plant milk so that's why I don't think you're doing it). You're making a fucking bizzaro world argument.

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  • [+] -10 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    Make sure to check out my edit in response to your edit.

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  • [–] 15 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    Uh huh. So your argument is you secretly don't have one but are pointing in the general direction that maybe there's an argument somewhere here and it's right.

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  • [+] -6 points 9 months ago* (4 children)

    No, I made the argument quite explicit. Since it still seems to have gone over your head somehow, I'll simplify it here:

    "Y'all hate etymological arguments right up to the point that they appear to support your position, and then suddenly you're in love with them. That makes y'all hypocrites."

    That's all. That's my argument. You're correct that it's right, of course.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Oh I see. Your argument that vegans or Lemmy users have a particular linguistic theory. I have to admit, I did kind of miss the idea that you had that sort of insight while telling everyone they don't know what your personal opinion is in other posts. Primarily because the idea is so pants on head. I'm also glad you have intimate knowledge of the language usage of gestures vaguely the UK in regards to plant milk.

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  • [–] -5 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Clearly you either lack the ability to engage in good faith or have reading comprehension issues, so I think I'll leave the conversation here. Have a good one.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    I gave up on you having good faith in this thread a long long while back hoss, if you haven't noticed.

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  • [–] -5 points 9 months ago*

    Everything here has been in good faith on my part; I was giving you the benefit of the doubt (and wasting my time in the process, it seems). Very appropriate for the thread in question, I guess.

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    see, the problem with this is that no person on earth calls it "oat drink" or whatever. Oat milk is the accepted term. The etymology is only there to highlight how ridiculous the entire thing is.

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  • [–] -5 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children)

    I make a point to call it "oat juice" specifically because it's not milk.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (4 children)
  • [+] -6 points 9 months ago* (2 children)

    I suppose so, if even the dictionary is fine with being wrong. Luckily the UK and Germany have fixed this - here's hoping for the US next!

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    Uh the UK supreme court also prohibited Oatly from even using "post-milk generation" as a slogan. It's 100% dairy industry pressure because they hate competition rather than because they actually care about labeling

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  • [–] -1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    I care about labeling though, and I can overall be very happy with the overall effects of the ruling while also disagreeing with the specifics or even the reason the change happened.

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    [–] -4 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    Milk comes from tits, juice comes from nuts.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    So do you make a big fuss about coconut milk?

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