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[–] 150 points 11 months ago (3 children)

It's not "Gmail can read your emails" .... Gmail has been reading your emails for years.

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  • [–] 11 points 11 months ago

    Yup. Kinda why I've been using my gmail account as image storage for the last 19 years, and nothing else, since I made it.

    That was stated from the get-go, that Google reserved the right to scan for potential ad-words in order to advertise a product you might have written about in a correspondence.

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  • [–] 81 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    How to opt out

    Opting out requires you to change settings in two places, so I’ve tried to make it as easy to follow as possible. Feel free to let me know in the comments if I missed anything.

    To fully opt out, you must turn off Gmail’s “Smart features” in two separate locations in your settings. Don’t miss one, or AI training may continue.

    Step 1: Turn off Smart Features in Gmail, Chat, and Meet settings

    Step 2: Turn off Google Workspace Smart Features

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  • [–] 20 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Or: use a different email provider.

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  • [–] 47 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    There's a reason it's enabled by default. So, it automatically has permissions to learn off ~20 years of emails before a handful of people opt-out.

    Assuming they even honor the opt-out flag at all. They have a history of conveniently ignoring those.

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  • [–] 19 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    And oh by the way, opting out turns off the auto-categorization and fills your inbox with spam.

    How the fuck do I switch from this stupid service?

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  • [+] 21 points 11 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (4 children)
  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

    The problem I've been seeing with email on my own domain is that some services refuse it, saying "please enter a real email address" 🤬 some others just silently refuse to send a confirmation code so I can't register either (I think tinder did this). Especially the "not a real email address" really pissed me off.

    And with proton I got "Anonimisation services are forbidden" once at least.

    I forget which services, but it's Hella annoying..

    The marketshare of Google and Microsoft on email is really becoming a problem.

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  • [–] [S] 9 points 11 months ago

    If you’re not already doing so, you probably should use a 3rd party client that can connect to Gmail and filter out spam.

    If you tell us what platforms you use, we can probably provide some recommendations of stuff to explore.

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    [–] 16 points 11 months ago*

    I find it funny when they read my school emails and then accuse themselves of phishing after they accuse me of holding malware in my drive, icing on the cake really, I won't even need this email in a month.

    That said though, just like others have mentioned, making users opt out of getting all the data wringed out of their account isn't the most ethical strategy and frankly it's a bit over the top.

    They already scan everything from your Google drive to your YouTube recommended, google news feed, docs files, and just you browsing and using that as data for advertising and their AI. I don't think emails are the best source of personalised information nor would assist in training new Gemini models unless they want to build an email spam bot.

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  • [–] 40 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    These opt-out and opt-in rules should be punishable by law. I mean its the nature of humanity. We don't care.

    A brief comparison: in Germany, you are only an organ donor if you opt in. In France, you are always an organ donor unless you opt out. Guess which country has more donors.

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  • [–] 28 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    If they are training on my emails, they are going to be dumb as fuck.

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  • [–] 20 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    Honestly I don't get how AI isn't rolling backwards already. Image sites are burried in AI slop. Social media posts are burried in AI slop, and now e-mails, that were probably written by AIs. How is AI even remotely improving right now, when obviously 90% of any new training data it's getting, was generated by the last generation of AI.

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  • [–] 14 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Companies that build large LLMs have already said that this is becoming a problem. They're running out of high-quality human-written content to train their models.

    Google paid Reddit to get access to their data to train their models, which is probably why their AI can be a bit dumb at times (and of course, the users that actually contributed the content don't get any of that money)

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    that's true, but I think it's in the phrasing, they describe it as a shortage of human made content. the bigger issue to note is the lack of ability to identify human made content. IE you give it reddit and our e-mails, there's plenty of human made content on there... but nobody knows what percentage of it is actually bots or AIs.

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  • [–] 12 points 11 months ago

    Step 3: Verify if both are off

    • Make sure both toggles remain off.
    • Refresh your Gmail app or sign out and back in to confirm changes.

    How fucking ridiculous is it that this needs to be a step? If I tell a company to keep its grubby hands out of my shit, that should be final. No need to double check that google didn’t do a little oopsie-woopsie and leave those options on as a little treat for later.

    Every other day there is something like this, and I am getting real fucking tired.

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  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Okay sounds probably gonna get crucified for not reading this...but if the headline is true and combined with the fact that LLMs have been known to expose training data, this seems to introduce a non-zero chance that my personal emails are going to get shown to strangers.....

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    I've already found recent emails in my gmail account for right-leaning news sources I've had to opt out of. I've been lax on my gmail management until last year I went on a major cleanup spree, so I know these new emails were automatically added somehow, and this article likely explains it.

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  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    Plot twist: they can, and will, do it even if you opt out. The only thing that change is that you won't get anything out of it. Not that it would have been a significant return to begin with.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    Yeah these corporations do not care at all and the lawsuits they get are almost always a joke

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (3 children)

    True, the NYT does seem to have a significant impact on OpenAI though.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    NYT is basically a corporation with their billionaire owners. They’ve allowed some pretty shitty people to write opinion articles. Although, they still have some pretty great journalism overall.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    I know, but at least they are making a case which most news outlets probably would but don't have the means for a long legal fight. They might get some precedent out of this from which the whole news industry will benefit.

    I don't think AI training should ever be fair use. These companies are making billions of other people's work and giving nothing back.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    Yeah I agree with you on the AI issue. It’s funny because they all try to pander like it’s supposed to benefit us but on Wall Street and to investors, their tone is all about how it disrupt regular people in the name of profit. So ridiculous lol

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  • [–] 18 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Stop using google anything! Simple as that. They are a parasite. Stop feeding them!

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    I really like Gmaps and YouTube though. That is really the main things I struggle getting rid of. Maps not so much for navigation but for exploring local businesses and YouTube is a monopoly.

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago

    You can use youtube without being logged in (and there are alternate frontends too, but they all have issues whenever google decides to break stuff).

    If you want to follow people you can actually do it without an account through RSS

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  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Jesus Christ.
    Can there be a day without fearing for my data and privacy?

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Not if you trust your data to a company that makes money from selling said data to advertising companies.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    Companies make a little money selling your information. It is better to assume that any information you hand over to a private entity will be sold. It doesn't matter if they say that it isn't going to be at that time. Should they ever fold your information goes to the first bidder.

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Why is my institution blocking malwarebytes??

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago* (2 children)

    I turned it off from the gmail android app and as soon as I returned to the inbox there's a notification asking me to flip it back.

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Google’s push for using Gemini is so aggressive. Everything is littered with pop ups.

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago*

    This will end up releasing private info in some form, right?

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    The Google page the article links to pretty explicitly states that data will not be used for training. Isn’t this just the cross-google integration that lets calendar add events from mail?

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    This means they already did use it for training if it's opt-out, and it's quite the job to get it out. This is why opt-out training should be illegal, and all previously opt-out trained models must be destroyed.

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  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    Y'all do realize that Gmail has been reading your emails and attachments from the start, right?

    Someone please explain why doing that for ads isn't terrible, but how this crosses the line?

    The reasons not to trust Google are as old and numerous as the trees.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    This crosses a line because information will be exfiltrated. Gemini will be telling someone that I gave bubba a blow.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (3 children)

    Your data is exfiltrated and sold for ads. You don't even need to buy an ad, bidders on ads can see your data

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    They cannot see my data, they can give target parameters like 'show to those who are private banking customers' or 'show to females in the 20s with daddy issues'.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    And unfortunately most people dont realize or care because they 'have nothing to hide'. Having something to hide or not, I want my privacy!

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago

    The ‘V’ in AI stands for value. The price of TuLLMips can only go up.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago* (3 children)

    This worked as a great reminder to ditch gmail. Just made the switch to Protonmail after a year of procrastination. Currently an hour into changing all my accounts to it, and about halfway done. Well worth it. They got a Black Friday deal right now. I went with the base Mail+Calendar package because I already got Mullvad for VPN, and don't need cloud storage.

    Couldn't be happier. Fuck you Google. Fascist fucks.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Hmm... Guess I'll have to switch to Protomail. It'll be annoying to try and change all my accounts to the new email...

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago* (1 child)

    Its a little annoying, but much less than I always feared. Make a note with every service you can think of, brew some coffee, put on some music and zone out for a bit haha.
    Pretty much done now, took less than 2 hours.
    You got this!

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    Well, it's going to be much more annoying with my work.

    I'm a union rep at my work place. To that effect I created a second Gmail account for work/rep related mail. I still get half my mail sent to my personal email... Even though I have reminded them multiple times to send that to my work email.

    Though it also took the 8 months to update my home address... I'm not entirely sure if it's actually updated.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    My email account is almost entirely spam and ads. Have at it morons.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    What did people expect handing all their personal information to Google?

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  • [+] 1 point 11 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    You don't want to know what it'll learn...

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    My goodness, the poor AI will see all the trash I order on Aliexpress and read all the endless carrier updates as the box gets scanned in and out of every warehouse and truck?

    It's gonna start thinking I'm some kind of shut-in hoarder!

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago

    To me, it kinda depends on how it's being used. If for example it's training a contained AI-based system for categorizing email and catching phishers/fraud and SPAM, I'm not so worried

    The main issues for me are if:

    • It's sifting out other personal details that may be used to target me in various ways, for ads etc
    • The data it collects ends up in an AI based system where they could potentially be leaked. Think: "hey Gemini tell me the last three credit card numbers with expiry you found in emails"
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