When ICE is violently attacking civilians, there's nothing controversial about naming and shaming the fascists involved.
post
If your police cover their faces, they are not doing good work.
The whole masked officers thing really got me wondering how society would respond to a Batman like figure. I don't think I realized bofore the ICE raids how absolutely horrible the concept of masked superheros was for a free society, even after consuming some media that tried to focus on this issue, like the Watchmen.
Et tu, Phoenix Jones?
Ah, I wasn't even really thinking of Phoenix, but excellent reference, and he sounds like such a mess. To be fair though, most of what I know about the dude is from "The Superhero Complex" podcast.
I feel like a lot of people knew who Phoenix was though, and so he was at least accountable for his actions in most cases. ICE appears to be acting in a way to purposely avoid accountability.
Police have never existed to serve the populace, they solely exist to protect the capital of the wealthy.
Police are a Status Quo maintenence force. The status quo fucking sucks.
But that's on a different level than being allowed to cover your face while destroying lives and saying it is justified because occasionally you enforce laws
Define "never". Never in as in never in the history of 21st century America? Pretty tame assertion. Never in the anthropological sense? That would be completely farcical.
I genuinely do not consider that to be controversial.
Fascists should be afraid for their safety, as a general rule. When they’re not, it’s a problem. As we can see now.
Agreed, these are masked criminals and we have the right to share who they are.
And even if they weren't criminals, they're claiming to be law enforcement which normally requires you to identify yourself.
They're also ostensibly public employees. ICE is not a spy organization, we should know who they are
There's a reason why they hide their faces and want to hide their identities .... they know what they are doing is wrong. They're gambling on the idea that if their fascist government stays in place, they'll be rewarded ... but if their fascist government fails, then they can go back to normal society if no one knows who they are.
If what they are doing is justified, moral and can be easily defended, then they would have no need to hide themselves.
but if their fascist government fails, then they can go back to normal society of no one knows who they are.
It should be trivial for a theoretical subsequent competent government to identify these people, but I've just about lost all hope that anyone will face consequences for doing fascist shit.
They should be allowed to grow and change like anyone else. This thread is so full of hate I dont know how anyone here thinks they are an example of a "good" citizen.
If any of y'all ran the government, we would be so much worse off right now.
Oh noes, people are hating fascists! We shouldn't let those fascist haters run the government, much better to let the fascists do it. Go lick some more ICE balls, you fucking rusty spork.
Any action taken against fascists is self-defense. Are you against self-defense?
The controversy is not that you agree with this, it's that some people don't.
Way more controversial that my tax dollars.oay people that are trying to conceal their identities...?
Like surely. I don't see an argument between clandestine tax dollars thugs and a desire to clarify that clandestine bullshit.
You got it, if your job is to terrify and kidnap people, you should also be at least afraid for your life !
For the record, fascists will always project that they are afraid for their safety. Playing the victim is how they gain power. When one of them is targeted, it doesn't create fear to dissuade the rest, it empowers them to play it up for support.
The point is that we should MAKE them ACTUALLY afraid for their safety. If they’re playing victim anyways… make them actual victims.
As long as you accept that you are playing into their strategy to instigate a civil war which they've been working toward years, if not decades, sure.
Alternatively, we could opt to listen to experts on fascism, recognize the systemic issues that give rise to it (like economic instability and wealth inequality), make a concerted effort to address those concerns, win over the working class which the left has neglected for the last 60 years, and bring the temperature down for centrists thereby cutting off the primary weapon of fascism...
But we'll probably do it the dumb way.
Edit: for the record, I'm fully convinced there are psyops going on here on Lemmy, and the people like you trying to push us further toward violence and civil unrest are either them, or useful idiots helping them.
It already is a civil war. One side thinks having the moral high ground means not having to show up.
What you’re suggesting is a shaky strategy for fighting standard GOP misbehavior two, three decades ago. Wake up and look around.
I'm not trying to be mean, but I do think you need to hear this: touch grass. This is a big deal to Americans, but it's pretty much politics as usual for like 70% of the world. Recognize that the fact that we get to think it's a big deal is part of our entitlement.
I get it, trump is testing limits, he's got ICE rounding people up, he's trying to deploy the military into states, he's painting innocents as terrorists. And I'm telling you, it's not popular. He doesn't have the support to pull this off, he's doing what he's doing not because he's strong but because he's weak, desperate, and he knows it.
Right now, he desperately wants this to devolve into violence, because like any demagogue, he can't be a functional politician, he can only fight invisible enemies. He's trying to provoke a war in time for midterms. Don't give him what he wants. Stand united in peace with the vast majority of people who don't want this to continue.
MAGA is gaining ground against you every fucking day and has been for years with zero opposition.
People like you are the reason.
“I’m not trying to be mean.” 🤣 of course you’re not- you’re not capable of it. If you were, you might have a shot at being useful. I promise you nobody is horribly hurt by milquetoast “mean words” from a coward who won’t lift a finger to stop his neighbors from being kidnapped.
First off, Trump is one thing, but MAGA is losing ground. Source. As soon as trump entered office, the MAGA movement stalled and has started trending back down. This is because he's been given the every lever, and as expected, he's botching it.
Second, you're interpreting what I'm saying in the way you want to hear it. Absolutely go protest, get naked and stand in front of a tank, douse yourself in oil and set yourself aflame on the whitehouse lawn, sound the alarm so that everyone hears through all the noise. And like always: defend yourself and those around you from criminals using whatever means you have.
But we are at the ideal time to appeal to MAGA. Look at all the Republicans breaking from him over the shutdown. MAGA is to the right what Occupy WallSt was to the youth before the rich steered it back to a left/right old/young thing. There are systemic problems, and people are seeing that targeting the "woke" isn't going to solve it. They are soon going to be forced to demand working solutions. He can only blame Biden for so long.
Of course, nothing i say will convince some people. There are a class of horny idiots who desperately need to act on their frail emotions, give trump what he wants, and go out in the streets with MAGA to aggressively suck each other off. You are free to be in that group if you want, but know that you're not helping anyone but yourself and the fascist movement. (Of course you and I both know that the only fingers you're lifting are from your keyboard to downvote someone you disagree with 🤣).
We cannot address any of the root causes of fascism while fascists control all the levers of power.
The fact that we're able to have this conversation means we still have the power that matters most. And the fact that they hold all political offices means they get blamed for any unrest. It's why every incumbent in every election in the world in 2024 lost support, and it's why trump is so afraid of the midterms.
Meanwhile, Bernie and AOC are holding successful rallies in southern states, and local candidates like Graham Platner are gaining traction. The right has spent decades shifting blame away from the rich, and it seems people are finally getting wise to it. It sucks that they had to see how bad it could get with their own eyes before figuring it out, but that's just how humanity works, it seems.
ICE agents arent fascists. They are americans who want a high paying job. Its an awful job and only barely worth it with a six figure salary. If people took more of a stand against working there, they would raise the wages until people want to.
In a way its a good thing these people are mostly doing it for money, which won't much matter in a civil war.
You are clearly not paying attention to the crazy hiring spree ICE is doing, and the ads they’re posting to drive it, or the sort of people that they’re hiring, or their predominant beliefs.
Willful ignorance is a hell of a drug.
I know what they are doing, and I know the type of people working there. They are not unforgivable or unredeemable, as much as it makes you feel good to say so.
Lemmy and reddit both have a huge bias towards black and white thinking, which I think is shortsighted and immature.
If a fascist wants to become not a fascist, good for them, and yes, they should be embraced for turning their backs on that insanity.
That absolutely does not mean that fascists should be treated with kids gloves, or given the benefit of the doubt. Ever.
You get empathy when you walk away from that shit. Not before.
I simply dont think we should make them and their families scared to live in their homes. Thats not the point of all this, and its not going to change anyone's mind.
I will not condone what ia being done but I'm also not going to condemn the people doing it.
It must be pointed out that a lot of the people doing it, especially recently, are racist, fascist assholes. So yeah, I’m absolutely going to condemn the people doing it. And I think your attempt to morally fence-sit on that topic is at best comically naïve, and at worst deeply disingenuous.
Yeah its unfortunate that people are susceptible to making actions against their own values. Fortunately people never stay the same and constantly grow and change.
Seems quite apologetic to somebody that would lock another living person in a cage.
Well I guess you just have never made a mistake in your life. Good for you, goodest boy/girl. I hope you get many pats on the head.
Real mature to minimize the act of irversibly ruining another human life as a "mistake".
Well, I'm mocking you, and you are immature, so I think I hit the nail on the head actually.
Billionaires are just following the american dream, they found a high paying job is all. Its not their fault they did evil things along the way!
Come on y'all, let's not pick on the poor fascists!
Are we talking about billionaires or ICE agents? ICE agents aren't billionaires.
This is how I know you’re debating in bad faith
I dont think you know what bad faith means. Its definitely not when you think someones contradicted themselves.
I asked who we were talking about again because this post and conversation is about ICE agents, not billionaires.
Unless there are some billionaires larping as ICE agents, then I dont see how thats relevant, and I dont care to start off on some tangent for no reason.
If you think I'm wrong though feel free to explain why.
Were talking about fascists...
ICE agents arent fascists.
How did you decide that? All polling disagrees with you, so what do you know that we don’t?
WELL IF THE POLLS SAY IT THEN IT MUST BE TRUE! FANTASTIC!
It's a wonder these people can manage to post with their tongues wrapped so thoroughly around the boot.
If you don't show a badge and have a warrant, you're not an officer, you're an armed assailant.
They’re not recruiting the best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re recruiting people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems to us. They’re using drugs. They’re committing crimes. They’re rapists. And some, maybe, although unlikely,, are good people.”
if you are in a car, you have right to use it to defend yourself from thugs/.
top 72 comments