Tankies: "Look, some like sweet shit-sauce, other like sour shit-sauce, but nobody is allowed to like sweet and sour sauce. For one thing, it has no shit in it!"
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Yeah, awful.systems has stupidly heavy handed moderation.
Drew DeVault is known for being a tankie? Are you sure about that? Afaik, he's a rather sensible kind of center-left.
Otoh, calling hyprland's developer or somebody like DHH fascists is a bit silly too.
What exactly did the hyperland devs and DHH guy even do anyway, and can you tell me without me having to read 35 links?
(Explanations are always just "they're nazis" with a bunch of links, which I'm sure have relevance, but I'm not going to some random site unless the juice is worth the squeeze and simply saying "them bad" doesn't entice enough.)
They are being wrong politically. I think Vaxry (the hyprland developer) opposed to some CoC in Freedesktop and was thus banned. Probably some other anti-woke stuff too. DHH has some pretty right-wing views (e.g. "London is not how I remember it anymore because there are too many foreigners" [paraphrased]) and used his blog to disseminate those views. Perhaps a bit ironically after loudly declaring that politics shouldn't be talked about at the workplace. I guess technically speaking his blog isn't the workplace.
Hardly cancel-worthy stuff even though I don't personally agree with a lot of them. But people are such snowflakes these days and at some point the FOSS community got so fundamental about certain opinions that Spanish Inquisition would look at them and say "Jesus Christ, bring it down a notch".
One small question, what is "CoC?" In my world it's a punk band turned dadrock lol.
That doesn't sound like the biggest deal from what I've heard so far though. I disagree with those views too (well tbh I've never even been in the country and it's not possible for me to "miss the old london" but ykwim haha), but I'm not gonna shoot my framework with an M4 like a case of bud light about it.
If I'm being honest I think the good that they're doing with the HW community right now and their (sometimes misplaced, sure) support for FOSS in general might, in my opinion, outweigh the bad done by them funding these specific projects/people* (*contingent on this being all it is). Like it'd be one thing if say they gave X laptops to ICE to help them out, but hyperland afaik has 10 users and I've never heard of DHH or omarchy or whatever until, ironicallly, this outrage gave it publicity. Hell I only previously knew about hyperland (and still don't actually understand what it is, idk I use KDE) because of people here on linux comms complaining that they're nazis, "no publicity is bad publicity" and such, it might actually be working in their favor.
These niche software devs that can easily be replaced by "using sway instead" pale in comparison imo to "one of the only two sustainable, modular, repairable laptop manufacturers in existence, the other being possibly exclusively German (idk their sales range, site is in German)." One of these is easily ignorable/replaceable, one is not, and I think I care more about furthering the right to repair than I do "these guys gave some money to a guy who said dumb shit on his blog that probably has 4 readers anyway."
what is “CoC?”
Code of Conduct, a set of instructions describing how people contributing to a project are expected to behave. It usually says "don't be an asshole" but some go deep into specifics what they mean by that.
Ah gotcha, well I guess I'd have to look into what that entails in particular to accurately judge that part, though I'm not a fan of codes of conduct in general tbh, excepting things like "please format X code like this" or something to ensure compatibility.
It's like how I don't think my job has the right to tell me a goddamn thing about what I can and can't do at (Freudian slip lmao, after*) work. They can suck it I'm gonna smoke weed and drink whiskey and I'll see you shitheads on monday, mind ya own business lol.
Things like:
Don't bring drama to dev channels,
don't bring transphobia to the projects' dev channels maintained by mostly trans devs
Are not as harmful as these "conservatives" would have you believe.
Nah that's fair for sure. "Dev channels" sounds a lot like "work" in this context, my job absolutely (imo) has the right to say "no transphobia at work." I don't smoke weed and drink whiskey at work either lol.
My problem with CoCs comes when they tell me not to do X outside of work as if they have any real authority (and as if I'd respect it if they did have any. Commit crimes that don't harm people today!)
It's not far-right vs far-left, it's authoritarian vs libertarian. Conservatives and tankies are both on the authoritarian side and for someone who cares more about personal freedom than economics they're way more similar than anarchists & tankies or right-libertarians & conservatives from your perspective.
It doesn't even have to be the political compass, 8values or 9axes works just as well with what I'm saying, which is that tankies are conservatives are very similar in a lot of ways once you stop considering economics, which is only one factor.
Either one of 2, 8 or 9 axes is far better than a single "left/right" spectrum.
In order for your explanations to have any kind of substance, could you list all the similarities between tankies and conservatives, that are not also traits of libertarians, you have in mind?
Ah, before he can do that, you gotta respond to your initial claims
but also here you go, a little game no one has yet been able to solve. can you spot who's tankie and who's conservative?
I think it’s worth mentioning both. Especially when bots and bad actors are trying to influence people on both sides of the aisle.
Many of the far-left views by bad actors getting pushed are pro-authoritarian, accelerationists. They want people on the left side of the aisle to be totally checked out of politics and they want to not change anything to help people in our current system.
Even though you can enact every single policy position they claim to care about inside of our current system, the bad actors do not care as they are not trying to help people.
I care what is being talked about if it’s stopping people from engaging in politics at all. Universal Basic Income, Universal Healthcare, and public housing for instance are three policy issues that can be tackled right now at the state level in blue states. People don’t need to be promoting a pro-collapse message, which could negatively impact millions of lives in the short and long run.
These bots and bad actors have been influencing people mostly behind the scenes. I don’t want the pendulum to swing back to the left, only to have a bunch of pro-authoritarians “on the left” to have radicalized a generation of young people believing they can’t accomplish their goals democratically. I want democracy, representation, and I want progressive policy that helps people.
The far-right bots are pushing their message to low information people online, trying to get those people to be sympathetic to their talking points or to check out from politics as well.
Tankies are just far-right for the other geopolitical camp. This isn't the take you think it is. I'd be considered far-left by the libs.
@H4rdStyl3z what's wrong on being a centrist?Also, at least the admins also show their true face.(edited the comment for clarity, lol)
Neutrality always supports the status quo.
am curious, how's that?
You must either be Left or Right. The Left will decide which one you are.
Well, rightoids are known for claiming to be centrists, claiming to be libertarians, claiming that rightism is "default and apolitical", etc and so forth.
And Lefties are known for saying anyone who thinks you should be able to contract someone to do a job for you for an agreed upon payment is a fascist.
Lmao sure buddy
*there are only two ideologies
mine and nazis
What‘s your ideology, goat?
I avoid labelling myself as I don't think it does any good.
But gun to the head, I'd have to say I'm an environmentalist with a touch of social ecology. Though I avoid calling myself a social ecologist because it can be affiliated with violence, and I'm not opposed to governments.
Socially, I care most about freedom, expression and democracy.
What about yourself?
Ah, alright. The mod of a nazi bar¹ highly politicized community² doesn't like labels and then strategically formulates the most broad and empty perspective about their own ideological thought, one can come up with. I applaud the skill³ you excercise.
What about yourself?
Let me try one like that, but from my perspective:
I avoid labelling myself as I don’t think it does any good.
But gun to the head, I’d have to say I’m also somewhat of an environmentalist, but actually more of a humanist with a touch of economic analysis. Though I avoid calling myself an economic analyst because it can be affiliated with radicalism, and I’m not opposed to democratic institutions.
Socially, I care most about justice, liberation and human dignity.
—
- Nazi Bar: A space in which bigots or extremists have come to dominate due to a lack of moderation or by moderators wishing to remain neutral or avoid conflict.
- A community, that bases its entire means of existence on the labeling of the political other.
- Blame-avoidance and the refusal to clearly label one’s views are common tactics used by individuals — especially those holding controversial, minority, or potentially stigmatized positions, but also by politicians seeking to broaden their appeal or evade direct critique.
lol i think you're mad because i didn't fit into your preconceived notions and your whole dialogue tree is ruined
also if this is a nazi bar, why are you here?
a. If you think I'm a nazi in a bar, that's not a nazi bar: why am I still here, bartender?
b. If you think I'm not a nazi, but in a nazi bar, the real question would be: what are you doing here, bartender?
i think you're mad because i didn't fit into your preconceived notions and your whole dialogue tree is ruined
Lol ya, big ass gotcha, haha. Why you think my notion is preconceived? I'm working with what you give me.
well why else are you so mad?
I'm mad, because you are an enabler of fascist narratives, counterfactuality and hate speech.
Why does this feel like a reference to a specific example you're not explaining?
Basic liberalism?
And their true face is fucking ugly.
Who can support the horrid state of things. Give me a progressive over a centrist any day.
By centrist, I mean either centre-left or centre-right, not fully centrist. I understand that being a pure centrist is pretty much impossible, but sliding into authoritarianism is the worst thing that can happen (and it's already happening around the world tbh). Both far-left and far-right have shown they only have repression in mind, and they all benefit the elites instead of the public. There's nothing perfect in either political system, but at least the centrist forces do allow some criticism if it means it will make things better imo.
And yet in the US at least, extremism won out over the centrist option, I would argue, because the centrist option was TOO centrist, and people were sick of it.
@Reverendender This is what happens when you only provide two options on the ballot - the left and the right (not to mention the president is also the executive). In much of the rest of the democratic world, systems allow for the existence of multiple political parties, so that people have where to choose from. Usually, no single party holds the majority, so forces have to form coalitions in order to form a government. This has the effect of a better representation, as extremist views are usually held only by a small minority of a population (see for example the coalition in the EU Parliament, which is leaving the far-right political families on the side).There is a flip-side to it, indeed, where a situation like the one in France can occur - where the parliament is almost evenly split between the political groups - i.e. the center, the left and the far right. This could lead to political crises, as it makes coalition negotiations harder, but I think it is still a better outcome than having the far-right get in full control of the government.The US political system was thought out in a way to keep extremist forces away from the mainstream, which was a good intention, but the architects of this system didn't think about the possibility of at least one of these political forces (i.e. the right in this case) to slide into authoritarianism and extremism.I saw some opinions on the internet about the fact that there are still some Republicans who do not agree with the MAGA movement, but they're pretty much unable to do anything - MAGA has closed the ranks in the entire GOP leadership and at this point it is pretty much impossible to overthrow it.
Anarchism is a far left movement and it is very much the opposite of repression or benefiting the elite instead of the public.
That's not what centrism means, but yeah, I'm not happy about that. The corrupt political class of ours has all the means to make billions anyway from mismanaging our taxes, so sending weapons or not does little in this regard.
We are one of the country that recognizes Palestine though. And our communist dictator maintained good relations with both Israel and the Palestinian Authority. They could have easily said that we're no longer recognizing Palestine and be done with it.
Everyone let the genocide happen. We simply had more pressing issues in our proximity.
You know better :)
I'm not German, I am Romanian. Yes, there appears to be one batch of shipment to Israel, but that's about it (at least so far).Our defense industry lies almost dead and buried, so there's nothing to produce to begin with. And that is with another 3-year-old war at our borders.What you could say about us is that we still keep our relationship with Elbit (the company that owns the factories the hardware was sent from) but that's about all the military relationship we have with that genocidal state.And no, we did not make out of this (maybe Elbit did). Our current government struggles to reduce the fiscal deficit by increasing taxes, cutting spending where it's needed the most (like from education and culture), while keeping privileges for judges and other magistrates who have the ability to retire at 47 years old with pensions 10 times higher than the one of the average folk. That's pretty much where the billions are coming from, rn. So if there is any billion that might have come to my country since Israel invaded Gaza, I personally didn't feel the difference. Quite the contrary, I finish the month with less money than before this year.I hope that makes the picture more clear.


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