top 41 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

Just to say something different then the definition, I would describe it as both a representation of, and the justification for, the government's monopoly on violence.

  • source
  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    This looks like an assignment for your homework.

  • source
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] [S] 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    That may be true, but I still think it's a question worth considering.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    It’s a question that’s been considered over and over again throughout history by academics and philosophers. There’s well-researched books on the topic by experts.

    Asking Lemmy is like asking some random person on the street what this whole quantum mechanics thing is about.

    You could read up on the subject and discuss particulars with other people interested in the topic. It’s not a subjective question to drop on a bunch of random doom scrollers.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] [S] 3 points 1 year ago*

    I'm not concerned with definitions, but rather with people's opinions. This seems to me especially relevant given that there are many US users here. I'm interested in how they perceive what is happening in the US, what their legal system allows, and whether they consider it just in any way.

  • source
  • parent
  • load more comments (1 reply)
  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago

    The purpose of a legal system is to provide stability to a society, so that a person can safely pursue long term goals over their lifetime in a predictable environment.

    The most effective way to accomplish this is to make a system where laws originate from a process where people are allowed to have some say in the creation of the laws that will apply to them, and the laws are then applied uniformly, consistently and fairly to all people regardless of background.

    Our system partially fulfils this.

  • source
  • [+] 9 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    I have always had issues with any and all legal systems because they are rooted in human language and human language can be endlessly reinterpreted. In fact, that's pretty much the half the reason lawyers exist, to argue that a certain interpretation that benefits their client. As we've seen time and time again, the language of the oppressed gets co-opted and repackaged (recuperated) by the dominant and controlling parts of society. Those who already have control are unlikely to let that control of others go, and they will sink to any depth and any reinterpretation to justify it.

    At least academics who focus on interpreting literature are honest about how they're pulling the interpretations out of their own ass.

    Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

    -Jean-Paul Sartre

    Thus, as much as we need legal systems, I think they are always prone to failure and authoritarianism.

  • source
  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    The purpose of a legal system is to provide consistent and coherent methods of conflict resolution that are superior for the functioning of general society than means outside of a system of centralized coercion for certain, sufficiently disruptive acts.

    By this extremely broad definition, the legal system in my country, the USA, fulfills its purpose. But so would the legal system of fucking Napoleonic France.

    More narrowly, a legal system should be oriented towards a standardized means of punishment and reform of those who disrupt the basic functioning of civil society.

    By this narrower definition, my country only succeeds on 'standardized means of punishment', and even there arguably only partially. It largely fails at reform, and the punishments are both visited on those who do not disrupt the basic functioning of civil society (minor drug offenses, immigration crackdowns, anti-homeless legislation), and failed to be visited on many of those who do disrupt the basic functioning of civil society (gestures broadly at corporate America and the current coterie of fascists in power in government).

  • source
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    A legal system should be providing the framework to deal with disagreement and should be fair and equitable. Mine is being trampled all over atm so is not doing its purpose so well.

  • source
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    To make justice to the victims of crimes by punishing the perpetrators without accidentally punishing the innocent. Mine currently fails at both due to the long times it takes to judge people, meaning guilty people don’t get properly punished and the innocent get ounished with a long court battle that takes up much of their lives

  • source
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Purpose is to keep everyone in check ti be nice humans.

    Does the one here fullfill that? HELL NO

  • source
  • [+] 4 points 1 year ago (18 children)
  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago (17 children)

    What purpose do you think it should serve?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 17 child comments
  • [+] 2 points 1 year ago* (16 children)
  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago (15 children)

    The purpose you mentioned is to oppress people. Does that seem desirable to you?

    My question was what you would do if it were up to you to decide what purpose the legal system should serve.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 15 child comments
  • [+] 0 points 1 year ago (14 children)
  • [–] [S] 2 points 1 year ago (13 children)

    All I hear in your answer is anger. I can understand that, and I share it to a certain extent, but I think you'd be doing yourself a favor by turning that anger into something positive.

    Being against something achieves much less than being committed to a goal. The fanatical Maga supporters show where a purely negative worldview leads. These idiots are even against things that spring from their misguided imagination, and they can't even define what their hatred is directed against. That's why their leaders have given them terms like "woke," which are as empty and unfocused as these people's hatred. The goal is to have them pulled behind their leader, who does nothing but enrich himself.

    That doesn't seem desirable to me. Rather, it seems desirable to me to think for myself instead of repeating slogans.

    My point: You won't be able to change anything if you don't have ideas that point in a positive direction. That only leads to the same unproductive hatred that the Maga fanatics represent.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 13 child comments
  • [+] 0 points 1 year ago (12 children)
  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago (11 children)

    Spare me your imaginary lectures and also your assumptions. I am European and I know the basics of political science. Besides, I'm not the one downvoting you. You're doing that all by yourself.

    I have tried to be conciliatory and convey a positive message here, but I have to conclude that this is obviously futile.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 11 child comments
  • [+] 1 point 1 year ago (10 children)
  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago (9 children)

    Du hast nicht die geringste Ahnung, wovon du redest, mein Freund. Es ist armselig, wie du dich aufspielst ohne auch nur das Geringste zu sagen. Ich kann nur feststellen, dass du vollkommen verblendet bist und damit kaum besser als die Maga-Vögel, die dein Feindbild zu sein scheinen. Das kann ich nicht bewerten, weil mir vollkommen unklar ist, worauf du hinaus willst. Ich kann hier nur einen Social-Media-Troll erkennen - nichts weiter. Geistlos und arrogant - nichts als haltlosen Anschuldigungen und nicht ein eigenständiger Gedanke. Ich nehme an, du repräsentiert .ml. Das ist meines Ermessens der Schandfleck von Lemmy und der Grund weshalb ich meine finanzielle Unterstützung für die Softwareentwicklung eingestellt habe. Eine derart unreflektierte Weltsicht kann ich nicht unterstützen.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • [+] 1 point 1 year ago (8 children)
  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago (7 children)

    Whose boots are you licking with your opinions?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [+] 1 point 1 year ago (6 children)
  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago (5 children)

    China, I assume. You seem to be a staunch communist, although you obviously don't care what that means. So probably Russia. If I'm wrong: China also has little to do with communism. It's just that the world's production is located there, so they have enough money to make people believe that this is a system worth living in.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [+] 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    I just don't understand what you're getting at.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [+] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Good question.

    I think I have to distinguish between my opinion on what a legal system should be vs what i think it is first.

    Imo a legal system should just elaborate on justice, ie equalizing between opposing parties on the fixed principles of ist foundation. For example if you have the rule that nobody shall be harmed, that includes all harm and no matter for what reason, except necessary to keep harm from others etc.

    What I think the legal system is in most countries (or rather has become, but i'll explain why that was the only choice anyway) is a way for the rich and powerful to excert power over the masses. You need to be insanely privileged to work in the legal system or to influence it, you need a lot of money to hire a lawyer, etc.

    The country i live in is infamous for its complicated and blown up legal system. It is exactly what I explained before.

    Why is it systemic? We have the issue that we live in an unfair system that thrives on inequality and left by itself it is cruel and heartless. A legal system needs to try its best to keep the cruel parts at bay which osnt possible long term. In socialist systems, despite their flaws, that is much easier because the system is based on similarity.

    I think we need a better system (you can guess) and then the legal system will collapse to the most basic stuff like theft, fights and such. The whole "legally stealing from customers" shtick will be gone.

  • source
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    You probably would not appreciate me punching you in the face and taking your phone. If I'm stronger than you there is not much you can do. If you get the entire tribe involved then you can.

    That being said every legal system is perfectly adapted to how society was in the recent past.

  • source
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    First there was moral reasoning and feelings, then there were religion, and now there is laws. I think it works quite well for countries with a healthy government.

  • source
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The purpose of the legal system of the United States of America is to oppress the common people and enable the capitalist agendas of the highest bidders. It accomplishes these things perfectly.

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Imagine you could establish a new legal system. What would it look like?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    The root cause of the legal system we have today (in my estimation) is the existence of private interest in all levels of government. Between lobbying, gerrymandering, and reelection "donations" there is no such thing as an honest judge. The first step would be excising the cancer of profit from the judicial system in its entirety.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The legal system has many jobs to fulfill, but in the broadest sense it serves to construct, maintain, and administrate the contract between a government and its citizens.

    In spite of recent events, I do believe that the American legal system is one of the best that has ever existed. That isn’t to say it is perfect or even nearly so. Our system has many flaws, and recent events have done a great job at highlighting those flaws. However, it is worth remembering the severity of previous systems which lacked basic pillars we now take for granted (like the presumption of innocence)

    It is also worth remembering that our legal system has a lot to contend with: not just the scale of the American population but the vastness of American diversity. Never before and nowhere else have such massively diverse populations been able to construct a society where we are all empowered to disagree with each other. The contract which makes this possible may still fail do provide these things equitably and may now be strained beneath its own weight, but the simple fact that we are able to discuss these flaws and conceive reasonable avenues for improvement is evidence that our system is (imperfectly) working.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] [S] 0 points 1 year ago

    I really don't understand how you can hold that opinion. Your president is clearly a criminal, and he is exploiting your legal system to enrich himself and his partners.

    That's perfectly obvious.

    It's equally obvious that your legal system not only allows this, but also enables this level of massive organized crime in the first place.

    Here's an example: Clarence Thomas, a Supreme Court justice, has been blatantly corrupt for decades (and he's not the only one in that small circle). The Supreme Court has ruled - in clear violation of the US Constitution - that the law does not apply to the president. So Trump is shamelessly enriching himself.

    How can anyone live in such a system and even approve of it?

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The purpose of the legal system is to enforce the laws.

    Does it fulfill it? No. Trump was convicted on 34 counts, has not been held accountable. If you have the money to delay judgement you can get away with anything.

    On the other end of the spectrum, if you don't have money and can't afford legal representation, we are SUPPOSED to provide a public defender.

    When there aren't enough public defenders to go around, those cases aren't even prosecuted.

    https://www.opb.org/article/2024/05/31/appellate-court-affirms-ruling-releasing-defendants-from-jail-with-no-public-defender/

    https://www.opb.org/article/2025/03/13/oregon-counsel-unrepresented-attorneys-crisis-misdemeanors-felony-cases/

    https://www.mcda.us/index.php/news/da-mike-schmidt-calls-lack-of-public-defenders-an-urgent-threat-to-public-safety

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment