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[–] 58 points 1 year ago (9 children)

The assassination of Charlie Kirk threatens to embolden the far right and provide Donald Trump with a pretext for crushing dissent.

Oh no, maybe he will use it as a pretext to declare war on a US city and name it after a WWII battle like Midway!

Or maybe his administration will claim that filming federal enforcement is violence!

Or maybe he will have US citizens detained by immigration enforcement based on racist profiling with the blessing of SCOTUS!

Or maybe they were going to manufacture a crisis and this isn't actually enabling anything they weren't already doing.

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  • [+] -26 points 1 year ago (8 children)
  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Not just words. He was one of the biggest propagandists MAGA had. Kirk himself had blood on his hands.

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  • [+] -26 points 1 year ago* (5 children)
  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    It's not Charlie's fault that there are tens or hundreds of millions of Americans that, like you, endorse political violence and are eager to be told that it's okay

    He's actually for political violence based on his own arguments. So you can say he contributed to it being okay.

    He didn't create the audience, he merely exploited it for personal gain.

    And that makes him better, How?

    You're making him into some kind of whipping boy so that you don't have to face the reality of the situation. Nothing has been accomplished and so much damage has been done to us all.

    He was a whipping boy. He was a huge reason why Trump was elected. Something was accomplished yesterday, there's on less fascist in this world, and MAGAs bullhorn was just silenced.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    And what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

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  • [+] -27 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago

    Yea, I'm not going to do this with you. If you wanna be all high and mighty and disregard who he actually was to fit whatever argument you're going to make, you can argue with yourself. The world is better with one less fascist and I don't have the energy to deal with chucklefucks like you who suddenly care about what's right and wrong.

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    [–] 46 points 1 year ago*

    The assassination of Charlie Kirk threatens to embolden the far right

    Fuck that, they just assassinated two Dems in Minnesota.

    Why aren't people saying that and the rights reaction to it caused violence?

    Why is the rights use of violence accepted as inevitable, but if anyone else does it, people pearl clutch and say it might make the right do what they're already doing?

    And besides all that:

    We dont know who fired the shot

    Two trump voters have shot at trump, why is it a foregone conclusion a trump supporter wouldn't shoot at Charlie Kirk?

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    He preached exactly what happened to him.

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  • [+] -28 points 1 year ago (6 children)
  • [+] 18 points 1 year ago (4 children)
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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    withholding of empathy

    Do you think there are any situations where it is reasonable to withhold empathy?

    From my understanding the Kirk fellow was a demagogue who was happy to promote all sorts of vile ideas for personal enrichment.

    From my time in the US, I understand that this sort of thinking is haram, but I have enough knowledge of comparable demagogues in other countries to not buy into the "sincere belief" gibberish.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Fascists don't deserve your empathy, 'cause they don't spare you any when they send in troops to cull political opposition. You can' t reason with fascists, we had a whole fucking war about this not even 100 years ago.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    I'm endorsing the golden rule. Charlie Kirk endorsed violence, racism and homophobia just to name a few. This is exactly what he wanted, just not to happen to him. The shooter thought Charlie wasn't conservative enough, by the way.

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    [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Someone said Jacobin is the Happy Meal of socialist publication but I think that's a slight against happy meals.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    No, it's absolutely not.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago*

    If you take the articles content — rather than it’s title — as a warning for what comes next, it’s accurate and reasonable. What the article fails to consider is that what comes next was always inevitable. Republicans have spent months trying to create violent backlash. They needed an escalation — any escalation — to justify the greater atrocities they have openly planned. Declaring vulnerable minorities as dangerous and mentally ill, declaring political opponents the same, imprisoning American citizens and enacting an ethnic-ideological Final Solution in the US.

    Kirk’s assassination wasn’t the start of this and it’s not the end of it. He was a convenient sacrificial pawn for the Trump administration and the violent, oppressive, bloodthirsty, goose-stepping nazi party behind him. It will get worse. Much worse. And then it will get worse still. As of November 5, 2024, the US was damned to violent, horrific ends.

    If you cannot fight for your very life and your loved ones, find a way out now. Time is not on your side.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    Remember everyone: in the aftermath of a right wing fuckhead getting what they got coming, EVERYBODY is an establishment Democrat. All the "They go low, we go high" chanting along with "Any form of action is scary because it invites reprisals".

    Fuckers, "reprisals" have already been happening. Maybe the marketing will change but the actions won't.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago* (9 children)

    provide[s] Donald Trump with a pretext for crushing dissent.

    Donald doesn’t need a pretext. He literally sent the military to Chicago on a whim. Earlier this week. Before Charlie died.

    Why are people so afraid of giving him a pretext? He killed ten people on a boat in the Caribbean for no apparent reason. A literal war crime.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    It's not exactly about giving him a pretext, but providing a pretext for his actions in the eyes of others. There will be many people who are alarmed or horrified at him sending the military into US cities, but who will find it much easier to accept him sending the military to put down the "lunatic lefties" who go around shooting public figures.

    Acts like this erode support and give the opponents cover to further supress disent.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    When we don’t even know who the killer is or their motivations?

    The only people the “pretext” works on already support fascism.

    It’s up to us to stand up to fascism, not avoid angering the abuser.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    When we don’t even know who the killer is or their motivations

    You're right, we don't, and obviously the right have created a narative saying it's a leftwinger. The point is not to provide them a ready made narative. Killing kirk will do little to nothing to improve matters, much like killing that CEO has done little to nothing. What it does do it make it seem more "reasonable" for there to be crackdowns, after all there are "crazed lefties" on the loose killing innocent people. (Yes, it was hard typing that, which doesn't change the fact it's effective propaganda, even if it was a fase flag)

    The only people the “pretext” works on already support fascism.

    Fascists will obviouslt support it, but many ow information people, or even just people who are worried about how they'll manage can be easily swayed to accept harsher measures with stories like this. After all, they're not assasinating people, and assassinating people is bad, so if "the left" are doing it, they must be bad, and maybe they should be dealt with like that. As I said, it's propaganda, and making it easier for them by playing into it is probably a mistake.

    It’s up to us to stand up to fascism, not avoid angering the abuser.

    Go ahead and anger the abuser all you want, all you can, and stick in an extra kick for me. It's not about them though, it's about "hearts and minds", cliched phrase though that is. Individual assasinatons, unless they're of key personnel, whose elimination can actually stop something happening, will achieve little positive, and create a convincing story that it's just evil lefties killing people they can't beat any other way.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    Where have you been for the last seven months? They’re abducting legal immigrants and citizens and sending them to torture prisons in El Salvador and concentration camps in Florida.

    During Covid the blowback against masking and vaccines was calculated to kill democrats — denizens of dense urban areas where the virus was initially rampant.

    Donald’s invasions of only blue cities is a LITERALLY military attack on innocent people.

    It’s too late. Fascism is here. If you think you’re going to ride it out by keeping your head down, I’m sorry, but you’re wrong.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    It's not about riding it out, dealing with it is a separate discussion. The point is that they are (quite successfully) manufacturing consent for that fascism. The easiest way for them to do that is to twist an actual event to show that only they can stop this sort of terrible thing happening, and their opponents must be crushed.

    As I said, shooting some "celebrity", while cathartic, will not achieve anything positive (because kirk wasn't essential to any processes), but will make it easier to manufacture consent for suppressing those opposed to the regieme.

    To be clear, even if trump shot kirk in front of everyone, they'd claim it was a leftist, but it would be less convincing to many than if it actually turns out to be soneone even slightly left leaning.

    In summary, this event will only have negative consequences for those who aren't fascists, and given that, you'd hope it wasn't an anti-fascist who did it.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Explain to me what the last few decades of "well, I disagree with what you're saying but I'll defend to the death your right to say it" has accomplished? It sure hasn't thrown cold water on the rightward turn.

    Every time one of these sadistic hatemongers has said things like "kill all leftists" they just tip toe to the line of actual violence, and our silence is sanction.

    Their actions haven't had consequences since the civil war.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    All of which is true, but none of which increases the chances of this sort of act having a positive outcome.

    Of course their words and actions should have had consequences, but those consequences should have been, and should be, systemic, not random, sporadic acts of violence that just give them an way to convince more people that their way is the right way. Inciting violence should have meant facing charges of doing so. Inciting insurection should have meant spending the rest of your life behind bars, or worse. I also realize that the entire system has rotted from the inside out, those systemic consequences haven't come, and lashing out feels cathartic.

    Acting withour a plan isn't going to help right now. There needs to be some level of planning and action that focuses on turning those people who can be away from fascism and populism. Much, perhaps most, of their support is not hardcore as such, and just because that's the team they've always supported. It takes effort and support to break through that, but it's possible. There is much disquite amongst those who've supported trump and the republicans so far, exploiting that would seem to be a more productive approach, rather than driving them further into the fold.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago
    [–] 0 points 1 year ago

    @return2ozma This is what it looks like, to me:

    None

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  • [+] -14 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • 9 comments in c/progressivepolitics@lemmy.world view that post
    [+] 22 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago

    Lol. Rest in piss.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago
    [–] 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    That's an awfully liberal take from Jacobin. I expected better from them.

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  • [–] [S] -1 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    It is thoughtful and cogent and representative of those who believe in discourse, those who pursue nonviolent outcomes.

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  • [+] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago

    Non-violence and violence exist; you can't have one without the other. Remind me the next time you a) want to slap someone and b) decide another method (the non-violent one) would suit better. Non-violence is how good folk function day to day with every frustrating experience, and why life now is much less like that portrayed in westerns, where there just isn't room enough for "both of us" in this town. Individually and collectively people choose non-violence all around you. Have you lost the forest for the trees?

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  • We say things that others find extremely objectionable all the time, and we expect to be met with strenuous counterargument — not violent reprisal.

    Yes, that is why queer folks have to be 'in the closet'. Because they might be debated.

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  • 3 comments in c/libjerk@anarchist.nexus view that post
    [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    most on the Left have rightly condemned his murder.

    "The Left™"

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Bruh even the Jacobin slobbing the knob

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago