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Survival? HOW DARE 19th Century History (media.piefed.social)
submitted 1 year ago by to c/historymemes@piefed.social
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Survival? HOW DARE

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[–] [S] 86 points 1 year ago (17 children)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masabumi_Hosono

Masabumi Hosono (細野 正文, Hosono Masabumi; 15 October 1870 – 14 March 1939[1]) was a Japanese civil servant. He survived the sinking of the Titanic on 15 April 1912 but found himself condemned and ostracized by the Japanese public, press, and government because of a misconception that he decided to save himself rather than go down with the ship.[2]

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  • [–] 85 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    He wasn't even a crewman, why the fuck would he have any ridiculous expectation to go down with the ship?

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  • [–] 58 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Honour culture is fucked. It's just peer pressure codified, and with the exception that if you lose your honour as a man you should commit suicide or be ostracized to the point that death may have been a mercy. Women have it worse in these cultures.

    Honour culture of any sort is a sprial into a death cult that will swallow society.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    All culture is peer pressure.

    It's just that our culture has laxer consequences for unacceptable behaviour and less expectations of personal responsibility.

    What constitutes worse is a matter of opinion (a.k.a. norm), in US culture women can have their rights and access to healthcare taken away without consequence to the oppressor.

    Even in matters of personal honor, the rapist-in-chief famously has little to no consequences for besmirching his own and others' honor, exemplifying many other such cases.

    Harakiri and shunning can be argued as better mechanisms to protect women.

    It's just different solutions optimising for different outcomes. And many solutions differing from our own have shown success for certain goals, be it US, China, Islam, Catholicism, Roman or Aztec.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    You aren't wrong but also, maybe I'm some kind of out of control woke feminist, but I don't think a man should be expected to let himself die just because the ship he's on is sinking. Yeah children and an accompanying parent first of course, but if you aren't sentencing a child to death or parentlessness yeah, follow the evacuation instructions and live. Hell we should treat you well afterwards because that sounds really traumatic.

    Honor culture often demands suffering for stupid reasons. Our culture is too far in the other direction where honorless assholes face no consequences or shame, but we shouldn't be expecting death for the dishonorable.

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 1 year ago

    You aren't wrong but also, maybe I'm some kind of out of control woke feminist, but I don't think a man should be expected to let himself die just because the ship he's on is sinking.

    Clearly you don't understand what it is to be a MAN

    To be a MAN is to DIE at the FIRST OPPORTUNITY and anyone who says otherwise is a PANSY and a PANTYWAIST and probably a POINDEXTER as well!

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    I happen to share your perspective, but I find it hard to argue that their stupid reasons are better or worse than our stupid reasons for our accepted suffering.

    My take is that humans have solved for stability and safety for many thousands of years and found several good enough solutions, typically well adapted to a slightly out of date situation.

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