If you find one, you find a group cos like attracts attracts like.

It wasn't your fault

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[–] 221 points 1 year ago (10 children)

Rapists know they'd be punished and/or shunned if they spoke of their crimes, so they don't talk about it.

Victims on the other hand are encouraged to seek help; talking through the trauma as a means of coping and healing.

It only makes sense the victim would be more commonly known about than the offender.

On top of that; a rapist is more likely to have created multiple victims, it's not just a 1:1 comparison.

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  • [–] 66 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    This is the most logical conclusion.

    Although I will say, I've met people that openly admitted to terrible behavior. Not rape, but very shitty things nontheless.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    And when I hear someone admit to shitty behavior, I tend to distance myself from them long before they get to the point of admitting rape or any other form of SA.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    Yep. Nobody goes full bore with their darkest secrets to strangers. Similar to racism, they do dogwhistles and jokes for a while before they would risk admitting more nefarious beliefs to someone who might judge or out them publicly.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

    Exactly, that's why we have to end the punitive and carceral 'justice' system that doesn't work and move to a restorative and transformative justice system instead.

    This would lead to less harm over time as it would not only remove the conditions that make people fear speaking out about their abuse, but also lead to teaching people not to abuse in the first place.

    The reason why such things happen is because of abuse growing up and a lack of education on how to go about having good relationships with others, gender roles and toxic relationships with those who are supposed to care for us is a huge problem and the current system is incapable of dealing with, catching and changing these problems because they simply put do not wish the status quo to change, it benefits them.

    If the power in society was not put with 'parents' and allowed communities to catch, educate and modify such behaviour and remove children from such situations over time it would lower such problems. The current system does not seek to deal with the root causes, it only punishes long after any such harm and bad lessons have been taught which clearly does not work.

    That's why we need restorative and transformative justice to remove the core power dynamics in relationships and throughout society which lead to such things, it wouldn't be overnight, but then the current system clearly doesn't know how to nor does it wish to get rid of these things and so it isn't ever going to deal with them.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (5 children)

    The only proper way to deal with a rapist, is they must be removed from society, by any means necessary. Certain groups cannot be tolerated, no matter how forgiving a society.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    You think rape is forgivable?

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    I think that's up to the victim/survivor.

    I do not think that reducing it down to always throw the person out no matter what is a good solution. I think punishment to that degree should always be a last resort, and we should work on dealing with the systems that allow such things to happen and give such people therapy, and make sure the variables such as entitlement, the patriarchy, and abuse etc do not happen.

    We should give people the emotional tools to deal with rejection and safe people/spaces they can go to without judgement if they have done things or want to do things so they can work through it.

    At the same time I believe we should also give victims/survivors (or potential ones) more control and power in this system so they can fight such people off and not be punished for it.

    My goal and desire is for a society where people are taught not to do such things in the first place and gave the ability to deal with no etc. However, in the mean time it's clear a transition is needed and punishing and locking people up clearly does not prevent it, so let's try something better which might have a chance of reducing and eventually eliminating such actions.

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  • [–] 52 points 1 year ago (41 children)

    If 1 in 100 men is a rapist, then he can rape a lot more women than 1 in 100. Very few people are responsible for most occasions, similarly with divorces, etc.

    Also why would anyone admit to being a rapist?

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  • [+] -23 points 1 year ago (40 children)

    No, the rate is around 30% of men have engaged in sexually aggressive behavior. It is endemic in our society hence why the majority of women have been sexually assaulted in their lifetime.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (7 children)
  • [+] -7 points 1 year ago* (4 children)
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Made up bullshit isn't a statistic

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  • [+] -3 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Don’t cite sources. This isn’t about truth.

    This you?

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  • [+] -3 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Prove what, your hypocrisy? It's self-evident, and I quoted you.

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  • [+] -33 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Sure, whatever a bunch of rape apologist males say.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    If you actually think nearly a third of all men are rapists, you need psychiatric help. That is literally insane.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Well the world is insane then. Every women I have got to know in my life has been sexually assaulted including my mother, wife, and daughters. It is endemic in our society.

    Thirty percent is actually a low estimate. In some studies almost forty percent of college males admit to using some form of coercion and ignoring consent. Fifteen percent of these would be considered rape by the laws of their jurisdictions.

    Keep in mind these studies relied on people being honest so the actual numbers are much higher. There is also a huge disparity between sexual assault and sexual assault arrests and convictions.

    Less than 4% of reported sexual assault end in a conviction. So that means there are a shit ton of people who will never face any consequences for what they did. Furthermore this does not even count all the sexual assaults that are not reported.

    It is estimated only one third of sexual assaults are even reported. This is due to the stigma women face for reporting. Many don't report because it is someone close to them and they are afraid. The ones that do report are often not taken seriously and dismissed without a report even filed.

    I have personally witnessed this when I saw a trooper talk my sixteen year old babysitter out of pressing rape charges because the boy was the son of a city cop.

    I am also a social worker by trade and I have worked for social service agencies like child welfare. I can confirm in my professional experience that sexual assault is an epidemic in our society

    I have also worked with adult sexual offenders in the jail and through reentry programs. I know what it takes to bring a rapist back into the community. So don't even play that I am crazy.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago* (7 children)

    Do you have a source for the number because it seems entirely made up.

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  • [+] -8 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    "White and Smith (in press) surveyed three cohorts of men across 4 years of college. By the end of the study, 14% had reported committing attempted or completed rape and 34% had reported at least one act of sexual assault perpetration."

    "Almost a quarter (24.5%) of these men acknowledged committing an act since the age of 14 that met standard legal definitions of attempted or completed rape; an additional 39% had committed another type of sexual assault involving forced sexual contact or verbal coercion. "

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    And the link to that study is where?

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  • [+] -20 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [+] -18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Oh yeah, I guessed that. Thanks.

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  • [+] -15 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    You would rather win the argument with one person than serve more people the source to read for themselves? If you quote a paper it should be sourced. If you don't source it then it is suspicious and you are just creating conflict. Methods are important.

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  • [+] -9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    Says the the person who actually advocated not citing sources. People do care, it's just you like to be right and because reality does not agree with your perceived bias, you can't find any scientific source to back it up, and therefore cannot source one. Your pettiness is your problem, not ours.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (15 children)

    What’s the definition of sexually aggressive behavior? I’m not doubting this statistic but it doesn’t sound like it’s measuring the same thing here.

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  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    A range of actions that involve the use of force, coercion, or manipulation to engage in sexual activity without the victim's consent. In other words, rape.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (13 children)

    Do you have a link to where you got this from?

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  • [+] -7 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    "White and Smith (in press) surveyed three cohorts of men across 4 years of college. By the end of the study, 14% had reported committing attempted or completed rape and 34% had reported at least one act of sexual assault perpetration."

    "Almost a quarter (24.5%) of these men acknowledged committing an act since the age of 14 that met standard legal definitions of attempted or completed rape; an additional 39% had committed another type of sexual assault involving forced sexual contact or verbal coercion. "

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    That is pretty insane actually. I’d still like to read the whole article if it’s available somewhere. Thanks.

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  • [+] -17 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    It is scientific journal stuff, pretty dry read honestly. You can find all this with Google search still. Cheers!

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    I know I can but if you’ve already got it up that would be easier and I feel it’s common courtesy to cite your sources. But alright, I will look for it on my own.

    I like reading dry academic shit, it’s a certain disorder I’ve developed over the years.

    Edit: I found this article which an almost identical section but the number in question was 14% rather than 24? https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4484276/

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  • [+] -7 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    14% is literally in the quote I gave you.

    Edit: Those were two different studies.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    As a rule you should just provide the sources you're quoting from.

    Otherwise, it just looks like it's made up or the source is shitty so you don't want to share the source because it would undermine what you're quoting.

    Just a thought for you.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    Not providing a proper link or proper reference (where link unavailable) is rather dodgy (& bad form) on the web, which was invented to solve this exact problem.

    Sending people to go hunting for sources leaves much to chance, and they may fail to locate them. It's simply not a logical way to support a claim or convince skeptics a claim is true if you care about your claim.

    No one is obligated to care about your argument more than you, especially if you won't care enough to support it properly.

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  • [+] -6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I provided it for several other people that repeated exactly what you said. At this point I am just considering this an incel brigade and blocking everyone. Cheers!

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    No, it's very much a you problem. You could very easily edit your comment to link a source. Instead, you created all this wasteful back-and-forth over not doing so.

    I link to sources, because I'm not a lazy fuck & I care about my arguments. But do block away: we don't need those unwilling to try.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago*

    ... What does 30% of men have engaged in sexually aggressive behaviour mean?

    Like it's been a long long long tradition that women predominantly prefer to be "chased" and expect men to be aggressive.

    30% isn't a large number, that represents about 15% of the global population about 600 million people out of 8 billion approximately

    I think you might want to rethink how you express your argument here because I don't think this is what you are trying to communicate.

    Again, what do you really mean when you use the term sexually aggressive?

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Stop trying to downplay rape by calling it "sexually aggressive behaviour", you rape apologist.

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  • [+] -17 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    This is Witches versus Patriarchy not White Male Rape Apologist vs. Reality. Read the fucking room.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Says the person refusing to provide the source despite the fact that you presumably have it in front of you. Assuming you're not making it up.

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  • [+] -12 points 1 year ago

    "White and Smith (in press) surveyed three cohorts of men across 4 years of college. By the end of the study, 14% had reported committing attempted or completed rape and 34% had reported at least one act of sexual assault perpetration."

    "Almost a quarter (24.5%) of these men acknowledged committing an act since the age of 14 that met standard legal definitions of attempted or completed rape; an additional 39% had committed another type of sexual assault involving forced sexual contact or verbal coercion. "

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  • [+] -11 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [+] -11 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I guess this sub attracts a lot of incels.

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  • [+] 40 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago

    Man here as well. I was sexually assaulted at work. Company did nothing but I did spend some time in a mental ward due to having panic attacks coming back into the office.

    Assaulter was a man, never got fired. I was kinda told to deal with it.


    I don't think I'm friends with any rapists but it's hard to tell. I had a friend that gets like a large number of hits on Tinder and basically hooks up really often with a new chick. One day, he described how he treated one of his girls that he wanted to settle down with, I was a bit horrified. He was saying things like, "she really thought she was at my level, I had to tell her I was number one in this relationship", "I had to separate her from her friends they were getting on my nerves". I was like ... oh shit, this guy's a possible abuser. I just kinda stopped hanging out with the dude. That girl did eventually dump him which he was sobbing to me about.

    I try to avoid people like that to be honest.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    Bluntly, everyone should consider themselves to be a mandatory reporter.

    I know the term has a specific legal definition, but if more people adopted that mindset, then maybe there would be fewer rapists walking free...

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  • [–] 33 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    This is - and I cannot overstate it - a joke.

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  • [–] 79 points 1 year ago (26 children)

    It bothers me that anyone pointing to the majority of men who are not rapists, is getting branded as a rape apologist.

    As a guy, I can say with certainty that I've never been involved in, nor known about anyone who was the perpetrator of rape.

    I firmly believe that the perpetrators, specifically the male perpetrators of rape, if they tell anyone, they say it as a regular sexual encounter. Ladies, we don't go into details taking about who did what in the bedroom. The most I've ever heard from any guy about their sexual exploits, is that they happened "I banged her" (or similar), and sometimes a quip about the experience or the person, eg: "it was great" or "she's a freak (in bed)" or similar.

    The reason we don't know that the people we know are rapists, is because they're not coming out and telling us about it. I promise, if they did, they wouldn't be free for long. They'd either end up in jail, or beaten bloody by the majority of us (or worse).

    Generally we just don't say much about what happens in the bedroom, to eachother.

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  • [–] 33 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    Agreed.

    I am a man and I am a victim of repeated child sexual abuse. It has broken me forever. While I don't feel comfortable explaining what effects it had on me, let's say that I'll never be a normal functioning person because of what was done to me.

    To what you said I would like to add that some of us are victims too and being generalized and then labeled as rapists or apologists is so fucking triggering, it's actually madening. The idea of being associated with my perpetrator is intolerable.

    I get it that sexual misconducts are more prevalent in men, but something like 1 in 6 boys will experience some sort of sexual abuse. That is a shitton of victims being labeled as rapist apologists.

    Anyways, like you, I think we can have this discussion without aggressively accusing all members of a given gender.

    Especially lately with all the Epstein stuff being discussed, I'm sure I'm not the only one feeling trapped in a constant spiral of flashbacks and stuck in a non-stop dissociated state especially that there is no accountability in sight.

    In any cases, let's have compassion for all the victims no matter their gender or sex and let's focus our anger toward the abusers.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago

    I don't think it's possible for me to agree with you more.

    I will only add the I empathize with you and all of the other victims regardless of gender. Please know that you are valued for who you are, not what has happened to you.

    Be well.

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  • [+] -26 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    It bothers me that anyone has ould bother to point out not all men are rapists. We aren't talking about or to you. Why do you feel the need to say something that everyone knows?

    Its because on some level, these people know that people like them have done bad shit and they want to defend themselves.

    It ain't about you dickhead.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    But it is. Because I see time and time again in the comments here that if I'm male, I'm either an apologist, or a rapist. This thread has disenfranchised an entire gender.

    I have all the empathy in the world for victims. I am not one of them, nor am I a perpetrator. I would, quite readily, turn in any person I know if they were a self admitted rapist. Moreover, I would entrap them by recording their confession, and submit it as evidence against them.

    I don't wish to diminish the point made in the OP, it's important to recognize the victims of rape. The fact is, the perpetrators are not exactly bragging about raping someone, so they don't exactly stand out. If they did, they wouldn't remain a free person.

    I get the point in the OP, but the comments here have been extremely toxic, branding every man who replies as either a rapist or an apologist.

    It's disgusting that someone would regard an entire gender as one, or the other. Many of us don't know if we even know anyone who has committed the crime, and never thought about it beyond the fact that it's a bad thing to happen... These bystanders are now apologists?

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  • [+] -14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    Your victim complex is massive my guy. The reason people shit on you for saying this is because the act of saying it implies it needs to be said. You don't even read your criticism but you assume it isn't constructive because you imagine it isn't.

    Once again because obviously you don't like reading: It does not fucking matter if most men aren't rapists when overwhelmingly most rapists are men and most men do not challenge rape culture. That does make most men dangerous for women. Reconcile that with your experiences.

    Right now, you are an example of how men make themselves a problem by not even considering they're wrong because they're insecure about being a man. Nobody is fucking saying men don't get victimized, they are correctly identifying that nearly 100% of cases of sexual violence is directed at women and the vast majority of men are complacent in a culture that perpetuates that violence. Making it about you because you don't like the association of manhood with sexual violence is in fact detrimental to discourses that seek to acknowledge sexual violence at all.

    You DENSE mother fucker.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago*

    It does not fucking matter if most men aren’t rapists when overwhelmingly most rapists are men

    How can you unironically write this while calling anyone else dense? This is equivalent to arguing that all fruits are apples, because all apples are fruits.

    Do you sink in mercury?

    the vast majority of men are complacent [toward rape]

    That's a lie, though. You're lying. Your deep sexism against men has led you to assume a total lack of humanity and empathy in half of the world's population. You've dehumanized them so profoundly that the very act of a male contradicting your prejudice infuriates you enough to double down while calling him a "DENSE mother fucker".

    For shame.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Then stop saying all men are rapists. Stop treating men like theyre all rapists. Stop implying that if I knew my friend was a rapist, he would still be breathing.

    I hate rapists as much as everyone else, so why is it constantly being portrayed as though I'm evil and deserve to be treated as a danger just because im a guy?

    This sign exclusively implies that men cover for other men. I do not and would not cover for a rapist. Theres a valid point to be made about men and rape, and this sign completely misses it.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago

    No one but you has brought to this conversation the concept that "All men are rapists" and it's confounding that you don't understand how much of a stereotype you're being coming into a women's space to shout "not all men".

    It's also a complete misunderstanding of the point women are making there. We don't believe that every single man is a rapist. Society has this regressive belief that a rapist is always going to be a nasty, creepy, criminal, awful man and that it would be completely obvious to any bystander that there's something wrong with this dude and to stay away. But that just isn't the case. So, it's a warning to women that any man could be a rapist. Even if they're a respected member of their community, a judge, a politician, a movie producer, etc.

    The other thing is the sign is using the word rapist here, but there are also many, many, many other forms of sexual assault, abuse and harassment and I can almost guarantee that you and most men have excused something in the past. My state actually made an amazing PSA about this a few years back now. Because there are so many acts that make women scared, or uncomfortable, that so many men just pretend doesn't happen.

    I'd also like to point out that it's super ironic that you don't seem to understand the fallacy of your own hubris. You've walked into an explicitly women's space, to yell at women, about how it's "Not All Men", without consent. Maybe you and the other men in this thread should sit with that for a bit?

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  • [+] -35 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    You didn't have to tell us you are a man, it was obvious. What you just did is provide a great example of why we need better education on gender based and sexual violence.

    Firstly, there is almost a complete certainty that you know a rapist and may even be friendly with one. The overwhelming majority of sexual violence perpetrators are men and that violence is facilitated through the nuclear family model and social ostricization of men who challenge rape culture.

    I have had multiple women in different generations of my family disclose sexual violence from men beloved by dozens of people who were none the wiser. I have sat at tables where men make jokes about getting women drunk on purpose like it doesn't reflect lived experiences only for other men to laugh along enthusiastically or nervously. I have been in classes where men discuss harassing women in the workplace without it being challenged. I could not name the amount of friends I've lost when I challenge them on their views, all of them have been men. Every one of those personal experiences reflects statistical data we have on sexual violence rates and rape culture reproduction.

    You seem to have this fantasy that rapists are men who jump out of the darkness to prey on strangers, but they're your friends and family who prey on those you know. They do talk about it, all the time. Whether they're talking about the act of rape or why rape is okay, they talk about it. You cannot insulate yourself from this culture without abandoning the responsibility to challenge it.

    When you say shit like, "not all men," you're admitting to an insecurity you have about the potential injustice of rape accusations and the association between manhood and sexual violence. Too bad, you're in it and have to choose to challenge it or continue to participate through inaction. The fear of false rape accusations is almost completely unfounded in a world where women face consequences for reporting and convictions of sexual assault are so difficult to get. False convictions are so statistically rare and acting like they arent shows that you value your comfort more than believing victims. Men are the vast majority of rapists and most women have experienced gender based or sexual violence at one point in their lives. As long as they exist in a culture where that violence will most likely come from men and most men do not challenge it, manhood will be associated with sexual violence. When you say that if a cartoon rapist should ever appear you'll give'em a wollop, you're subscribing to an imagination of sexual violence that obscures the reality of its frequency and potential vectors. You're telling the women around you that you do not care about what they experience and only think of rape as a vector for you to fulfill the masculine fantasy of violently punishing a rapist to protect the poor, helpless women.

    This is all of course ignoring your fundamental misunderstanding of what rape is when you discuss it as though it's a form of sex. There is no discussion to be had about whether men kiss and tell about rape because rape is not sex. It is about violence and power. It happens at high rates in highly patriarchal societies exactly because of the brutal hierarchy of power that must be maintained for that patriarchy to exist.

    I don't care if most men don't rape, most rapists are men and the greatest resistance we get to challenging rape culture is from men. If that bothers you, learn.

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  • [–] 31 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Congratulations! You just alienated a fuckton of potential allies with that speech. No, most of us don't feel any kind of group obligation. As a matter of fact, we are sick and tired of being told by society "fix this, fix that".

    So now, most of us are a sort of zen nihilist. We give a shit, sometimes.

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  • [+] -13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

    Username suggests this is satirical but comment history is inconsistent with that theme.

    Just in case: "Alienating" people who are already not interested enough to change isn't a loss. You don't focus on reaching those people, you make them too uncomfortable to be vocal. It's why eco activists don't give a shit if a boomer is mad about them blocking traffic, their goal is to make sure the boomer can't drive home in comfort. Comfortable people are the lifeblood of this system.

    The rest I don't think people will care about enough to respond to like, yeah conservative and liberal men are caged by individualism we all know that already and they never shut up about it.

    Edit: i regret not making a joke about the one guy who was about to become a feminist sex-activist and assassinate Donald Trump but saw the meanie queer online say that men need to be better and then he just gave it all up and signed up for rape school.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    My experience tells me arguing here isn't worth it.

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  • [+] -13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Now THAT seems satirical, only a fool would think internet arguments aren't productive..

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    You are throwing stray shots, alienating everyone of a certain gender by essentially accusing them of being tolerant of rapists. Also going out of your way to cast as large of a net as possible, by making a vague statement about violence being rape.

    The people who are reading this are strangers, and not buddy bud with you. They have their job, their responsibilities, their own worries.

    Either you are unreasonable on purpose, or baiting. Either way, it's not worth it for me to argue when I have my own worries and male SH to deal with in the morning.

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  • [+] -13 points 1 year ago*

    Oh no, a potential feminist sex-activist saw the meanie queer online and will no longer assassinate Donald Trump. Why did I have to be such a meanie oooh the hubris and righteous fury!!

    Edit: lookit that i got to make the joke. Seriously though, this makes men sound more fragile than I ever presented them.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    congrats on not reading their comment

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  • [+] -13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    You guys hate it when people can read you beyond your control.

    Edit: people can see who you are even if you don't want them to. Many of you are too uncritical about your values to hide them so you say them plain without even realizing.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    You haven't read me at all. I stopped reading your reply when you started making false assumptions about me, on opinions and subjects I didn't even mention.

    You need to assume less and listen more.

    Given your propensity to defend the victims of rape, I would hope you at least listen to them rather than make wild assumptions about their lived experiences.

    Do not presume to know me. Do not put words in my mouth.

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