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Gaming on Linux hasn't been great so far... | JayzTwoCents [27:59] (www.youtube.com)
submitted 1 year ago by to c/linux_gaming@lemmy.world
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Follow-up video to https://lemmy.world/post/32690521

Spoiler alert: the main reason he says the experience "hasn't been great" is because shortly before posting the video his Linux install mysteriously broke and he had no idea why. Therefore, he recommended dual-booting Windows just in case.

Cue sea of comments explaining that the reason for the error he was getting was that Windows screwed up his bootloader (i.e. the problem was caused by dual-booting to begin with, LOL).

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[+] -11 points 1 year ago (12 children)

Yes it is.

For the end user, if one platform has driver support and the other one doesn't, then one platform works and the other one does not.

"It's not my bug" is a thing engineers get to say to close issues on their backlog, but it doesn't magically fix the problem for the end user if the other side says the same thing (or doesn't care).

If you want people to use Linux, then Linux has to work, and that includes the third party drivers.

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  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    The user perceiving it as such, doesnt make it so. It makes a difference because if you acknowledge and make visible that it is AMDs fault, then they will be more likely to fix their shitty driver. Over all linux does have much better hardware support than windows, but with newer hardware the vendors are just oddly slow sometimes.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (8 children)

    It does make it so.

    I get so tired of shouting this from the rooftops in the general direction of FOSS devs and advocates. UX is the only thing that matters. If the user can't use it, it doesn't exist.

    No, Linux doesn't have "much better hardware support than Windows". It is harder to set up and maintain, so it's worse. It doesn't matter if you can make it work. It doesn't matter if you can make things work that don't work on Windows. If I plug it in and it doesn't go, then it's worse.

    This doesn't make me mad because I want to defend Windows, this makes me mad because I really, REALLY want Linux to do well, along with other FOSS alternatives to enshittified commercial software, and this is an absolute brick wall blocker for that. I don't know how FOSS spaces take away control from whiny engineers who think the current situation is functional, but somebody needs a UX equivalent of a Linus Torvalds shouting abuse at coworkers about how garbage their UX is (that everybody finds hilarious for some reason. Maybe the next step is getting some HR).

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It is harder to set up and maintain

    Its really not tho. Have you installed Windows 11 to a PC? Shit takes forever to remove all the ads, garbage and AI features. You literally have to edit the registry to get a usable system. Installing a popular linux distro takes like 5 minutes and then you just install whatever software you need. Any normal consumer device you plug in just works out of the box, no need to install drivers that are then again filled with bloat, ads and often even malicious code or vulnerabilities. Like ffs sake Windows 11 doesnt even function at all on a good portion of desktop computers in use today because of the TPM requirement.

    Just last weekend i helped someone that never used linux before to switch. The actual install took less than 5 minutes. GPU drivers come preinstalled with the distro and work out of the box. Then another 30 minutes or so of installing and setting up all the programs they need. Another 30 minutes to copy all their old files over and explaining some general differences and thats it. Literally zero tinkering required and they are happily playing their steam games at peak performance.

    Ofcourse you can get unlucky with your hardware which then involves a very annoying amount of tinkering, but when the baseline on windows is already fuckloads of tinkering then having to do tinkering sometimes is not at all a bad trade off.

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  • [+] -7 points 1 year ago*

    I dual boot on most of my devices and I have PCs around the house going back to Windows 95.

    I am also proposing that "just this week I installed Linux for my mom" becomes the next "year of Linux desktop" and is treated with similar derision, because man.

    In all seriousness, this is delusional. All Windows devices out there work out of the box and come with Windows preinstalled, so there isn't an installation in the first place, just a first time setup. Installing Windows the way I like it takes some tinkering, but MS's assumption is that most normies don't have a way they like at all and will happily take the default. They are right about this.

    There is certainly more clicking on a Windows install in that you have to say no to a bunch of stuff, but it's ultimately fairly equivalent these days.

    The problem with Linux isn't installing it (sweaty Arch users aside), the problem is what happens next. You can get lucky and have everything work, particularly with Bazzite and other distros that have a narrow focus and provide specific installers targeted to specific hardware, but if something in your PC doesn't work out of the box you're SoL.

    In the example from this video the guy found out their AMD GPU was running about 25% slower than expected, so now what? And that's before he reaches an ungraceful boot failure and is stuck out of the OS instead of going into an automated recovery process.

    You have to troubleshoot on Windows as well, as you do on any computer, but the likelihood of hitting an issue in the first place is lower due to it being the baseline platform, and the paths to a resolution are also more streamlined. That's the definition of harder to set up and maintain.

    The sooner the Linux community gets over the delusional bubble they live in after getting their systems set up and fine tuned the faster a transition to Linux for more people will be. The delusional rah-rah isn't helping.

    I should add that in my experience Linux developers and maintainers are WAY less unrealistic about the current state of Linux in these areas than vocal online advocates. This is more a community problem than a development or strategy problem, although there's some of both in there as well.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

    No, Linux doesn’t have “much better hardware support than Windows”. It is harder to set up and maintain, so it’s worse. It doesn’t matter if you can make it work. It doesn’t matter if you can make things work that don’t work on Windows. If I plug it in and it doesn’t go, then it’s worse.

    Meanwhile all five generations of GCN are varying levels of abandoned officially on Windows while Mesa supports AMD cards going back to GCN1, and even more recently started to enable AMDGPU support by default on GCN1 and 2.

    But yeah, as for Windows having better support, GCN1-3 are long since buried officially for that OS, and Polaris and Vega have a foot in the grave at this point as they're curtailed to security updates only officially on Windows, contrasted against Mesa still actively supporting that older hardware. Also, can't emulate RT on RX 5000-series and older cards on Windows, while you can on Linux.

    And yes, I'm aware of R.ID modded drivers for those older cards in Windows, but for this context, I'm only counting official driver support.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    You are listing edge cases. Nobody cares.

    You buy a laptop, you install Linux and it goes. That's the bar for mainstream usage.

    If you have an older computer that no longer gets MS or AMD updates it's cool that Linux can be installed on it and be marginally safer, but it's disingenuous to not acknowledge that in that scenario unsupported Windows still works, by definition. For people on older hardware their older hardware is already working.

    Linux can, at best, have a lighter footprint (and be less full of decades of leftover garbage) and make some forward compatibility available on very old devices, but it's not unlocking hardware that wasn't working because it didn't have drivers. Windows does do that in general, and especially for newer or niche hardware. Lying to ourselves about this is not doing anybody any favours.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    Aside from lots of people still holding onto RX 580s or 590s because those can still apparently run a lot of stuff at passable quality settings, let alone the Vega 56 and 64 and even the RX 5700 and 5700 XT still being really capable on their own, and yeah, RT emulation on pre-RX 6000 cards is a Linux-exclusive feature and hasn't been implemented in Windows yet and I don't know if it ever will be.

    Even GCN2 cards like the R9 390 or 390X can still hold their own once you get around the Vulkan 1.2.170 limitation, which can be easily accommodated for by using DXVK 1.10.x, as long as you're fine with the higher power draw vs. the RX 580 or 590 assuming everything is stock and you didn't undervolt them or set an artificial power cap in Corectrl, plus the RX 580 and 590 support Vulkan 1.3 and thus can run the latest version of DXVK.

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Why would it be? Again, nobody cares.

    The GPU makers want to sell you new GPUs, so they don't care. The game makers don't have much of an incentive to cater to whatever percent of the 10% of AMD users are stuck on ancient hardware, so it's not cost effective for them to care. The users are glad to extend the life of some devices, I'm sure, but the narrow band of software and features this enables is just going to get smaller over time as new software comes out, so as a collective the amount of caring will only go down.

    Again, you are talking about edge cases. We are considering a blob of several billion devices in a rat race to sell, refresh and upgrade billions more. Linux will grow as it comes preinstalled in new devices, justifying additional support from manufacturers in a constructive loop. I'm not against it serving as a remedial OS to salvage old ewaste at all, but that's not how you turn it into a major player on desktop devices.

    Oh, and for the record, I have some 6 series AMD GPUs around the house still. Even with native RT your assessment of their modern viability is... optimistic.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    The older games and even going as recently as the PS4 and XB1 generation, will still be around for the foreseeable future in both official and unofficial capacities, though, with some of those previous-generation titles even having an official DRM-free release on GOG to boot.

    And really, there's nothing interesting in the current generation outside of indie stuff, as far as the big AAA releases go, they largely appear to be slop this generation.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    And, once again, nobody cares.

    You are substituting your interests for the market. I'm happy that you're happy with what you have, but your opinion isn't relevant here.

    What is relevant is what is installed in the hardware that is selling and will sell in the next few years. Nobody is shipping 5700s on prebuilts in 2026.

    You want to see Linux in more systems? You get that by selling more systems with preinstalled Linux that don't give people an incentive to revert them back to Windows and by getting more people with preinstalled Windows on new systems to at least dual boot.

    You and I are sunk cost. We're the residual 2% of users that were already using Linux before Valve shipped one prebuilt handheld system with that level of setup. I care about people buying the second one from Lenovo and about convincing Asus to make more of these and eventually about extending those options to tablets, prebuilts and laptops as well as handhelds.

    That's how you both increase the Linux install base and add more third party support on both drivers and software. And hey, good news, you get to keep replaying Bioshock all you want forever. But you're not the priority here.

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