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[–] 71 points 22 hours ago (5 children)

We lose money on every sale we make... but we make up for it in volume.

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  • [–] 6 points 11 hours ago (3 children)

    I mean, that was the joke for Amazon for years, but....look where they are now.

    But I just don't understand the massive hype around LLMs. The cost per 1M tokens has dropped, significantly, since 2023 or so. And I don't think there is any reason to expect it not to continue. If you host it yourself, it's basically free other than hardware and electricity.

    Sure, with agents like claude code, you may use a bit more tokens or use it more often, etc, and the best models are more expensive. But not every task needs the best model or even a paid model at all. And people seem to be finding ways to fan out things to prefer local models for simple stuff, escalate to something paid, etc.

    I just don't get the business model at all, but maybe I'm just too stupid to understand. It's also possible we have an Enron-style situation, but spanning multiple companies and/or industries....

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  • [–] 6 points 6 hours ago (1 child)

    The cost per 1M tokens has dropped, significantly, since 2023 or so.

    The problem is that it's just not commercially viable, because you can't just say "We make money on inference", because that's a stupid thing to say. That's like saying the cash register at the supermarket is really profitable, because you sell a product for a higher price than it costs you to buy it. It may be true, but that's not how any of this works.

    You can't just stop developing new products, because if you do, your existing product becomes worthless. If Ford just started selling their current models, they would make a lot of profit right now... and then none in a few years as their competitors sell newer, fancier cars. If OpenAI stops training new models, they will make a lot of money right now, and then nothing in 3 to 6 months from now.

    Token pricing could double, and be free for OpenAI, and it still wouldn't save them, because you can't judge a business on how much money they earn at the cash register.

    I just don’t get the business model at all, but maybe I’m just too stupid to understand

    There is no businessmodel. The trick to keep burning cash, keep the stock high, keep the compensation for the people at the top flowing. The company can burn all the capital it wants, because the people at the top will keep getting paid.

    One layer below that, there's a whole bunch of business idiots who think LLMs will let them save on paying their employees, so they're very invested in it.

    One layer below that are a bunch of senior managemers who are just as stupid, but whose performance goals were just tied LLM use, so they've got a great reason to push it on everyone.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 hours ago

    If OpenAI stops training new models, they will make a lot of money right now, and then nothing in 3 to 6 months from now.

    A problem the 2 big labs have, with OpenAI the bigger problem, is forced compute leases. The training is basically free because they have way too much GPUs already rented.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 hours ago

    I mean, that was the joke for Amazon for years, but....look where they are now.

    indeed, i refused to buy stock because it was costing $1 to make 80c in sales, what sort of business is that? and yet here we are, to be fair their cloud business is the big profit centre and that came later

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