Tan Suit (lemmy.dbzer0.com)
submitted 14 hours ago by to c/mop
 
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[–] 13 points 10 hours ago (7 children)

Take the al-Awlaki thingie for example. I always find it interesting that using drone strikes on an objectively evil group (in this case Al Qaeda) gets so many panties get knotted...

"The extrajudicial killing"... Do these people really expect that when fighting such groups, the only possible way should be to parachute in, wrestle them to ground until they submit and extradite them to the US to face a judge?

Imagine if we had to do that with the nazis

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  • [–] 20 points 8 hours ago (4 children)

    It's it important, legal concept of imminence. It's self-defense if somebody points a gun at you, and you kill them in response. It's murder if you go to somebody's house, find them, and kill them because they hang out with bad dudes.

    The al-Awlaki case was more like the latter example. He was accused of being a propagandist for al-Qaeda. He had not taken up arms, he had not engaged in violence, and any threat he posed was not imminent.

    Moreover, the Obama administration recognized this, and argued that the President's assessment constituted due process of law, without the courts. Practically speaking, it means that the President can charge, try, and carry out the sentence of death, and there's no responsibility on anyone's part to prove that it was justified.

    The upshot is that, for example, the President can now say that you're an "antifa terrorist," and execute you, even if all you did was post a meme mocking Hegseth, and you have no recourse.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 hours ago (3 children)

    At a certain point, things turn into a war where it's impossible to go ask politely to turn themselves in.

    If you 'hang out' with a group that's at war with the US, and not in your 'posting memes' sense but in the kinda more serious 'multiple bomb attacks' sense, yeah then you run the risk of not getting the full judicial process

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  • [–] 10 points 5 hours ago

    Gah, I keep forgetting how hard abstract thinking is. In more concrete terms: President Obama accused Anwar al-Awlaki of being affiliated with al-Qaeda. We don't actually know if that was true. The administration never had to prove it in court; it just killed him.

    The reason that we have due process of law, and courts, is to protect the innocent. Forget memes, that was just an example. Under the precedent set by Obama, the President can convict you of any crime just by saying so. You and I could be affiliated with al-Qaeda, and threaten national security. Period. Don't bother to deny it, you are a terrorist, and there's nobody and no process to hear your denial. No lawyers, no court, no appeals. If the President said so, so it is.

    And that's dangerous.

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  • [–] 9 points 5 hours ago

    Would you be in favor of the reverse? Other countries coming to the US and just fucking bombing your house because your an American and maybe you went on a date with a soldier one time? It's pretty easy to make this argument when you have the biggest gun.

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  • [–] 16 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

    I always find it interesting that using drone strikes on an objectively evil group (in this case Al Qaeda) gets so many panties get knotted…

    I'm so glad that we'll always be able to trust the president to unilaterally decide which groups are evil and to use his power in the interests of the people.

    I mean, can you imagine what would've happened if some bad actor got in and used those sorts of things for precedent? Like, what if a Republican president had got in and decided to, I don't know, accuse random Venezuelan fishing boats of being "narco-terrorists," and used the exact same power to kill them for sport? Just spitballing here.

    But I mean, what are the odds of that, right? Surely we can trust the United States president with the power to be judge, jury, and executioner for the entire globe. This is a very sane and reasonable position, and I just can't understand why anyone would get their panties in a knot over it.

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