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[–] 94 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (13 children)

Some men have told me I was crazy to pass up the "opportunity". And some women have told me that I was a "gentleman" for doing so.

I don't know why men are so awful sometimes. But I think a big part of the problem is that taking advantage of women is normal and accepted.

The term "rape culture" is often misunderstood, lampooned, etc. but that's a really good distillation of it. SA is not "encouraged" in a legal sense, it's punished, but there is a cultural expectation of men to be uncontrollably sexually aggressive while women are supposed to "defend their virtue".

If men aren't sufficiently sexually assertive, they are often seen as less masculine. This isn't always the case - it can support the conception of masculinity as being chivalrous. But can also be viewed as being more passive, less virile, less strong, etc.

If women are perceived not successfully "defending their virtue", it's seen as a failure on their part except sometimes in extreme cases of sexual violence if seen as being "unprovoked". Hence the "look what she was wearing", "asking for it", etc. etc. tropes. These are often less overt now, which causes people to overlook the extent to which they blame women for being victims of SA.

Rape culture - it's defo a thing and that's it.

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  • [–] 30 points 1 week ago (4 children)

    I think the points you are making here are ones people miss. The societal perception that women should control sex creates the whole situation. In a way, women are expected to mask their desire for sex everywhere except the bedroom. Sadly, the western world is the progressive group on this. The rules on what women can wear in other countries doubles down on the masking. And we know how well that works for the women...
    But have do we move forward on eliminating the source of the issue. I just don't know. The system just treatments the symptoms with laws.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    I think it's a vicious cycle there more than one creating the whole situation. The expectation that men will be sexually aggressive encourages women to be sexually defensive which includes masking desire which leaves much more room for men to be encouraged to be sexually aggressive.

    The ultimate solution is to work on both at the same time. We need to continue the push for sexual liberation, which includes encouraging women to be open about desires and to make moves, but is ultimately the process of getting men/women to move from an aggressive/defensive approach to sex to both having an egalitarian and cooperative approach

    At least that's my outsiders perspective, I'm a lesbian who never dated men, so grain of salt and whatnot

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  • [–] 5 points 1 week ago

    It's more or less spot on, from what I've seen, and it makes perfect sense. You don't get a system to last centuries without making it thoroughly self-reinforcing. And it's precisely what makes the outside perspectives valuable: it's hard for a fish to see water unless you take it out of it. Otherwise you just end up turning "boys will be boys" into "yes all men".

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

    I’m a lesbian who never dated men

    And yet your insight is better than that of most of the other people posting here, who are probably straight men. Who'd have thought that being a woman and loving women might confer someone with understanding of women? I respect the Sisterhood, as I do anyone strong enough to swim against the current in pursuit of their own integrity and joy.

    which includes encouraging women to be open about desires and to make moves

    The first time a women assertively made a move on me, when I was about 20, I was initially freaked out, but went along with it (which turned out to be a good choice). I'd accumulated that much gender-role stereotyping up to that point in my short life. After that, such experiences were still the exception rather than the rule, but I was more confident in my responses (which didn't always mean I said yes-- someone obviously drunk could well have morning-after regrets, and I didn't want to be part of those).

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  • [–] 7 points 1 week ago*

    It makes women adversaries instead of partners. It emboldens predators and removes people’s agency. Things like rape make certain people feel more powerful.

    The problem is a lack of access to basic resources, resulting in lower education and thus more tribalism. A few of us are amplifying that because we’ve let that be profitable.

    That’s what needs fixing.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 week ago (6 children)

    In addition to all that, I find it highly ironic that women are expected to be beautiful and sexy and present themselves to men for our gaze, meaning that we men are expected to try to take advantage while the women are expected to stop us.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 week ago (5 children)

    I remember being confused about why "slut" was an insult as a teen. My line of thought, as someone that wanted to have sex with women, was that women that liked sex sounded more fun.

    I understand now it's insecurity. Guys feeling threatened by a woman having experience with other guys because they know they don't put much effort in to even understanding how to pleasure a woman but want to assume they are amazing in bed anyways. Insecurity on its own is ok, but the way they handle it is fucking pathetic.

    It's the same mindset that gives them an ego boost from cheating but then getting paranoid or even outraged when they realize their partner could be doing the same to them. It's hilarious sometimes watching cheaters react to actually getting cheated on, too.

    But I digress.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

    But what about when women use it as an insult?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    I think it's the same root, just the subtext is "no man will want you" instead of "I don't want you". Or for lesbians, the exact same insecurity.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    Thanks for the answer.

    Isn't the fact that no man would want the so-called slut a benefit to other straight women? Or at least, something neutral? Why would they feel anger or repulsion over this?

    My thought is that the woman doing the insulting is insecure because she thinks the so-called slut attracts a lot of attention, or would "cause" her man to cheat or break up with her.

    Of course, I don't see that as the right way to look at things, but I think it's quite ingrained in conservative culture.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago

    Yeah, though that's also getting into the question of "why does this person want to insult the other person?" which is a bit different from "why did they pick that particular insult?".

    Though I should also mention that the insult might have just been chosen because the insulter thought it would be effective and doesn't actually see anything wrong with it themselves. Or they use it because they know it's effective against them and project based on that. There's probably some people that use it as just a general insult but don't understand it any deeper than that. These can apply to any insult though.

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