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[–] 3 points 1 week ago (49 children)

Most people dont crack other's skulls in and keep the pieces either

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  • [–] 10 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    Its very unamerican, but its possible to acknowledge that someone has done something awful, is an awful person, and deserves to die, while simultaneously acknowledging that how we treat the worst among us shapes our humanity and our society.

    The penal system should be about minimising harm to the public, and rehabilitating the perp to whatever extent possible.

    Its fine to conclude that someone is irredeemable, but they're still entitled to a lifetime of support to be their best self even if that's in prison.

    American culture is heavily focused on tit for tat transactions. Did bad murder = gets dead. She might deserve death but we are all lessened by giving it to her.

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  • [–] 31 points 1 week ago (29 children)

    if you punish mental illness, then society itself is sick.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 week ago (26 children)

    What do you do when mental illness apparently makes you premeditate a murder, carve religious symbols into someone's flesh, and smash their head like an ape getting at a coconut? You can't make that right. They grouped up, got all edgey with their satanism, and murdered someone. Your dark past does not give you an excuse to rob others' futures no matter your mental condition.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 week ago (4 children)

    No one said it should be an excuse. And a possible solution in her case might have been a forced therapy; so she would also be locked away, just not in prison but a mental institution. If that’s better or worse depends on the institution. But at least the goal would be to right her mind and not punish her if there is no meaningful corrective result.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 week ago (3 children)

    I'm not of the opinion that all minds can be "corrected". This case was an especially nasty one, involving multiple people all targeting one person and luring her out away from everyone and mutilated her. The stain of malice cannot be denied here. Seems like everyone has skin in the game for mental illness but no one gives a shit about the hatred and loss of life.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago* (1 child)

    Locked up in a mental institution is also punishment. It's not like this is a large chillout area with fun games.

    No idea how it is in the US, but in Germany this is an even worse punishment, because they don't get a normal sentence. If they get locked up in jail, there is a time attached depending on the severity of the crime. But mental institution is basically "until deemed fit for society". So if the staff there wants to fuck you up (or if you are actually a lost cause), they will simply never deem you fit for release and you stay there until eternity, pumped with drugs. And all of this without another judge looking into the case ever again (unless you happen to have very very good support from outside, but even then the judge will typically ask experts — so the doctors — who will just explain why you have to stay locked up).

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago

    There are no mental institutions like that in the States. Reagan ended that. That isn't to say there aren't any at all, but there are no asylums or anything like that. Most mentally ill become homeless and its fucked up. So an American saying someone needs mental help is basically saying they have no real recourse. I didnt think it was fun and games or a chill out area but I dont think the help she could get in the States would ever have been enough. I dont know what is enough looking at her stated reasonings for the murder. Thats not a problem we know how to simply fix. What I do know is, again, everyone hand waving that someone lost their life to this woman. You glazed over it here, instead going right to talking about mental institutions. Again.

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  • Right, and presumably you're an expert with at least one relevant PhD or other qualifications and experience who is able to determine what minds can and can not be "corrected". You must also be an expert of the highest order to be capable of making that determination without speaking to her, or being so much as in the same room as her.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 week ago (10 children)

    you're not an expert. just some random idiot.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (9 children)

    Okay Mr expert then, what the fuck is up? What do we do?

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  • [–] -1 points 1 week ago (8 children)

    Fix the society and the material conditions that allowed this to happen, and work to undo the harm that the failures of society caused that caused this to happen. This crime was completely preventable, and this person, given her personality this late in life after a lifetime of unimaginable and uninterrupted torture since the moment she was born, is obviously someone that would be a good person to have in society.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago* (7 children)

    Very broad strokes with no actionable plan, cool. Is wishing praxis?

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  • [–] -1 points 1 week ago (6 children)

    No actionable plan? There are so many actionable plans that work better than doing nothing. Pick one. Norway. Finland. Iceland. Fucking China. France. Honestly nearly any society that has made it to mid-capitalism or better.

    The 'Perpetrator' was raped multiple times as a child, physically and verbally abused, and was only sentenced to death because this happened in 1995 instead of 1994.

    She was quite literally tortured her entire life, with zero support, zero examples of positive behavior, zero effective alternatives. This was allowed to happen explicitly because of both a lack of healthcare, and a lack of government oversight. If she had regular healthcare, her rapes would have been reported sooner, and she would have had therapy and a new family to guide her to make different choices.

    If we did not have a CHRISTIAN society, we wouldn't have the hysterical whining from far-right christians like you about 'satanism,' which would then have allowed the jury and judge to actually look at her like a kid that has been only exposed to abusive behavior, instead of a 'super evil super-predator satanist.'

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago* (5 children)

    You said "I would fix the world and society" thats not a fucken actionable plan my guy. That has no details on how to accomplish the said fixing or what you even fix to begin to help. And unless you invent fucking time machines I dont think you can "fix" people being raped. Absolute insanity here just thinking that Norway, Finland and all Nordic countries are perfect and have no rape or lawsuits. Fucken wild.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 week ago (4 children)

    I know America has some of the lowest reading comprehension scores of every country that teaches English in any form, but you really take the cake on this one. It's almost like I'm on truth social or Facebook.

    To be more specific:

    No, I did not say 'I would fix the world and society,' I say analyze the material conditions that lead to the failures that resulted in the tragedy, then work to make sure those conditions improve. Like every country EXCEPT the US does. Literally everyone one. War lords in Somalia analyze the failures that lead to the crimes in their demesne and work to improve those conditions. The US doesn't.

    For example, as I have stated multiple times, medical care, therapy, state apparatuses to detect bad parentage -- fucking improved living conditions and parental education and screening, literally anything. You know what happens when a depressed, isolated kid with clear distractions shows up to school in Norway?

    They're called into a counselor's office, told whatever they say is confidential, and that they'll be protected and helped if they let them know what's going on. There has yet to be a child surviving child sexual abuse that does not show outward, obvious signs of that abuse when not around their abuser. There is entire fields of psychology built and peer-reviewed on detecting it from behavior. It takes 30 minutes once a month to teach teachers to recognize the signs.

    This could have all been avoided. And yes, you can fix people being raped, as that, like pretty much all crime that has ever happened or will ever happen for the history of humanity, is a result of the material conditions of the criminal's life and the society they find themselves in.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (3 children)

    Fix the society and the material conditions that allowed this to happen, and work to undo the harm that the failures of society caused that caused this to happen.

    Talking shit and you can't even read your own comment. Why are you here? To talk shit to Americans and ignore the meaning of words and what you say?

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  • [–] 0 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    ...And then, if you read the rest of the comment, I give exact prescriptions for solutions to the material conditions that allowed this to happen to this person...

    This is a trolling or punking or puking or whatever the fuck the slang is, isn't it?

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  • [–] 0 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    Yeah AFTER I told you there was no actionable plan you posted a paragraph to correct yourself. Lmao have fun dude. This is ridiculous.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago

    Its all praxis-by-wishing

    LOTS of people and institutions failed that woman, but none of that excuses or justifies the murder

    In my view, the saddest part of all of this is how vile and hateful the victims mother has become. She did some interviews and it is extremely clear that she has been waiting anxiously for the execution for 30 years. She has carried that bile and venom so close for so long that its obviously unhealthy.

    If Christa Pike had just been sentenced to life without parole 30/years ago, this woman could have spent that time healing.

    Instead she has been stewing. It looks awfule when you watch her speak

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  • [–] 0 points 1 week ago (3 children)

    got all edgey with their satanism

    it's amazing when you can pinpoint Americans.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

    Factually not what happened, but please enlighten me with your elevated world view.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    There has never been a Satanic ritual related death in US history.

    There have been some troubled people that wanted to scare the Christians that were abusing them. And given the number of false convictions around the early and mid 1990s because of 'satanism,' anyone that brings it up just looks stupid. Purely, ridiculously stupid.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 week ago

    Which is why they were edgey carving that into her chest? I dont see how you are refuting that they carved a pentagram into her fucking chest here. Thats what I said. Thats what the satanism was. Do you think that was done in jest? Or that they were not being fucken edge lords when they did that? What are you trying to fucken say here? This thread makes no sense now.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 week ago (5 children)

    There is no evidence it was premeditated, and she didn't carve religious symbols into anyone. There was a 1 symbol carved into the person, and it wasn't by her. That person admitted to doing so in court.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 week ago (4 children)
  • [–] 0 points 1 week ago (3 children)

    Yeah no I read that. I would no longer find her guilty of premeditated murder and as I stated before she did NOT as confirmed by the person who carved said pentagram in her chest stated to police, carve any religious symbols into someone. Not only do I think she served her sentence now I think the state is guilty of torture and you should be legally eligible to be held liable for slander. "Familiarize yourself with the case". Hopefully other people's opinions teach you that your opinion isn't absolute.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (2 children)

    Slander ffs. Her and her cohorts went out, lured a woman by herself and tortured and killed her. Everyone seems to be forgetting this but when conservo AI bros get back what they hand out its karma.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    No that's the story you gobbled up like Trump telling you public healthcare is going to burn America. Gobble gobble gobble. Think more, repeat less.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 week ago (10 children)

    She was also repeatedly raped as a child. Sometimes you need to understand what lead a person to their crimes. If you can't see past the reality of the perpetrator, and only care about obsessing over the most brutal parts of the crime instead of Pike's lifetime of suffering, then your opinion isn't related to justice, just revenge.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago*

    Revenge was most likely the motive for her trying to kill (only failed due to lack of time) the other death row inmate.

    Committing premeditated revenge murder for making rude comments and possibly other actions is not simply "OK" because you had a rough time in the past. Other victims don't get to just murder everyone they don't like because they had a bad time. Hell, most rapists were probably raped them selves, not an excuse, considering other victims aren't out there doing it.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 week ago (8 children)

    Again, having a horrid past does not excuse her actions. The murder still took place and the stated reasoning was jealousy.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 week ago (7 children)

    Nothing excuses her crimes, but being tortured should absolutely excuse her conviction.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 week ago (6 children)

    I'm sure her victim would feel great about that, or you know, nothing at all because she smashed her head in with a piece of asphalt.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (5 children)

    This doesn't matter. You are just too emotionally fixated on the details of the crime to have a good faith conversation about the constitutional implications of state sanctioned torture.

    Torture is explicitly forbidden by the Constitution. You cannot use it to punish some, and if you do, that person deserves restitution, prior crimes notwithstanding.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 week ago* (4 children)

    I already said in this thread multiple times that the state shouldn't be able to murder people. We shouldn't be here. She should just be sitting in a cell learning about her own brain and getting psychological help. But here are we. And everyone calling for her immediate freedom forget she has received no help and brutally, violently murdered someone with 2 other people. If the world would be how I want it to be, they'd be left to their community's judgment. But modern people dont grow up in tightknit communities like we are supposed to. At least most of us dont anymore.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (3 children)

    That's great and all, but the reality is that she was neither jailed for life or executed, she was tortured, and she deserves restitution because, despite her conviction, she still has constitutional rights.

    You keep trying to handwave her rights away with appeals to disgust. I don't give a shit about whatever emotional reaction details of the original crime brings you. If you don't respect the constitutional protection against torture, you're deeply in the wrong.

    Pike may have perpetrated a crime, but she is also a victim of state abuse. The former doesn't invalidate the latter.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 week ago* (2 children)

    but the reality is that she was neither jailed for life or executed, she was tortured

    Never said she was, have been saying this entire time she was just tortured.

    You keep trying to handwave her rights away with appeals to disgust

    She already waived somebody else's rights completely away. That has consequences. Am I the only one who remembers this? Only one in this thread who fucken cares she ended someone else's existence over admitted jealousy? Go read the court docs, watch her interview. She said it herself. Yes, I am making appeals to disgust. What she did was disgusting, no matter her own dark past. That doesnt mean what the state did was right, that doesnt mean what she did was right. Its a shit fest.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    So you admit she was tortured, but don't think she deserves any amount of restitution for having her constitutional rights violated. There's only one way to read this: you don't care if her constitutional rights were violated, and are happy to use her crimes as justification for it.

    She already waived somebody else's rights completely away.

    This is the exact same argument the Trump admin has used to deny immigrants due process before deportation. You talk like a fucking fascist.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

    I already told you what I think should happen and you choose to ignore it to put words in my mouth so you can outlive your moral fantasy right now. If you aren't going to bother conversing and instead want to shoot accusations, I am not going to continue.

    Edit: and you keep fucking going on about constitutional rights, shut up, what did Christa Pike do to her victim? Take away every single right and choice. But you ignore that, in favor of the person who committed the act and ignoring reality that somebody is dead and that deserves consequences. But in this instance is super special and we should totally listen to the murderer and even set them free because they have a super sad upbringing. Thats the consensus in this thread and it is just asinine. She doesnt get a pass to kill because she had a bad life, just like the State doesnt get a pass to kill and torture just because she did.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago (5 children)

    We are not talking about most people though.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 week ago (4 children)

    You literally said "most people change". So yes, you indeed did bring most people into the conversation. Everyone here screams mental illness, but nobody wants to talk about the brutality of carving symbols into flesh and cracking bone with primitive tools.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 week ago* (3 children)

    I literally never talked to you before in my life.

    What is there to talk about? Its brutal and fucked up. What else is there to say?

    "Most people" does not matter when we talk about a person that is clearly not like most people. In their upbringing and in their actions.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    The person I replied to did, I didnt see it wasnt you, but that means you didnt even read the whole thread just my comment and came in here with a shred of context. Good job.

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