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"Women love video games," Dressmaker dev says, there just aren't enough games for them: "We were definitely targeting women from the get-go" (www.gamesradar.com)
submitted 1 week ago by to c/pcgaming@lemmy.ca
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[–] 105 points 1 week ago (8 children)

The problem has never been that women don't like games, it is that men have made women feel unwelcome in many ways in gaming culture.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 week ago

    As a guy, other guys acting misogynistic infuriates me. The label incel is also very cringe, almost as cringe as the incels themselves. It is alright to be single okay? Its actually fucking awesome sometimes. Furthermore, some people are not meant for relationships. And guys blaming all women for some unspecified grievance when they themselves won't look three seconds at themselves and their behavior, or somehow deludes themselves into thinking "supermodels should be throwing themselves at me the second I climb out of my basement, and if they don't, it's obviously because of trans/LGBTQ/woke and I just need to double down on being s toxic piece of shit. That surely will make me attractive!". /rant

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  • [–] 13 points 1 week ago (5 children)

    Yep, it fucking sucks playing shooters online as a woman, you get so much harassment, which sucks because me and my all female friend group really enjoyed valorant.

    Like, I'm here for more femme games. And I do think that games need to not treat women as an afterthought, giving us good character options, styles, and romance options for example. But for that, a lot of the industry has accepted that. RPGs for example understand that their audience is largely to majority women. We're past the era of "I suppose you can play as a woman in some games if you want…"

    But ultimately what we still see is that "girly games" are much less respected and women are harassed in online and competitive games, as well as we're less respected when we speak on topics of gaming than men. This is especially the case in "gamer" spheres which still maintain a pretty hard-core misogyny problem.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 week ago

    But ultimately what we still see is that "girly games" are much less respected and women are harassed in online and competitive games, as well as we're less respected when we speak on topics of gaming than men. This is especially the case in "gamer" spheres which still maintain a pretty hard-core misogyny problem.

    This exactly. As if clicking heads for 100 hours makes you more of a gamer than playing the Sims for 100 hours. As if having guns and gore effects makes a game a "real" game, and no other type of game "counts".

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  • [–] 7 points 1 week ago* (3 children)

    No matter what people say about it too, "girly games" don't get the same investment, creative vision and hype that "masculine games" do, even when the "girly games" sell a ton.

    This is both a problem with sexism and our conception of what sells, people are constantly telling stories about what kind of games people actually want and it is almost never corresponds to the breadth and depth of reality and not just in smaller indie games.

    We constantly repeat that mindless sex, violence and other types of cartoonishly masculine games are what people want to buy while ignoring the massive, astronomical success of games like Stardew Valley, Slay The Spire, Balatro, Terraria, Eurotruck Simulator 2, Factorio, Subnautica etc... I really hate this forced sense of cynicism about what we desire and why.

    Which... I love FPS games, I like lots of "masculine" games but we have a very narrow vision culturally of why people play video games and it pisses me off.

    I also to be honest as a man feel really lonely most of the time talking about my semi-competitive FPS hobbies to people in real life, a big reason for this is women are culturally assumed to not be included in the experience so most women don't bother pushing through the toxicity to find out if they like that type of game (why would they?)... so naturally it isn't an easy topic to connect with not men on... and then the men who don't play these games tend to see that as an indicator that video games are childish. How is this good for anyone?

    As a man I want to live in a universe where video games can be a more common topic because who plays them and why isn't so narrowly defined. I just want it to be a normal conversation. I want to be able to casually have conversations with women about the video games they like, and to get wrecked by women in multiplayer FPS games on the regular. Things are just better when women are included, any time men get together and exclude women it gets disgusting, smelly, toxic and weird and this has held video gaming back for decades.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    Yeah, I think this failure to equally invest in girly games comes in large part from the fact that women are expected to be comfortable partaking in things considered masculine, and men are expected to be uncomfortable partaking in things considered feminine. Feminist theorist Julia Serrano talked about parts of this where because masculinity is regarded more positively violations of gendered expectations are seen as less bad when it's women embracing masculinity. This of course is also because of many years of hard fighting for women to be permitted these things, but as she notes things associated with femininity are seen as frivolous, tainted by their association with women. Thus she posited that a necessary step towards gender equality is the fight for feminine things to be seen as valuable and acceptable for men to want without a status hit. Sorry for bringing theory into this, but your comment really drew to mind her ideas.

    And yeah I was in college during gamergate, where being a woman who games on console/pc went from bad but seemingly improving to so much worse. It led to me and my friends regardless of gender generally stopping using the term gamer to describe ourselves and avoiding "gaming" spaces for the most part.

    And yeah I love some fpses. Me and my then gf used to play overwatch together, it was toxic but overwatch was popular enough with women and moderated enough it didn't get that bad (unlike valorant). Personally I prefer them to be campaigny and story focused: Halo (the good ones) of course remains a classic, ths Borderlands series has consumed far too much of my life, and I bonded with my sister as I played bioshock as a teenager. Make something like mass effect but an fps and most of the women I know that game will be all over that shit.

    And yeah, I mostly play indies, I'm loving Fields of Mistria (it's kinda like stardew), I've sank a concerning number of hours into Binding of Isaac, anything by Supergiant (Bastion, Transistor, Hades, etc) is an insta buy for me, Rogue Legacy 2 is criminally underrated, Gris was the perfect game to play by candlelight… Really I just like my games having art in their design and writing as well as roguelikes. And I know a lot of women with similar tastes to me.

    In general though I avoid competitive gaming unless playing with friends, because I'm not very good and the toxicity is so horrendous.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 child)

    Awesome response!

    To add a wrinkle here I am not that competitive emotionally, I appreciate competitive multiplayer games because of the magic that happens when two humans (or even more fun two teams of humans) are interacting through a dynamic system.

    Singleplayer and co-op games are awesome, my mind just loves the loop of pulling a clever trick on someone and then being forced to react to the response they choose to catch me off guard...and seeing how that evolves and continually challenges my mind to reframe things, that is the addictive part to me and NPCs/AI doesn't really bring that to the table without a ton of human artistry in the game design (one of the reasons Halo 1-3 or Half Life 2 are considered some of the best singleplayer fps games, it ain't easy to make that..).

    What I want from a competitive FPS is not to be the best player, it is to play an FPS where when I lose I feel like it is because my awareness wasn't correctly oriented or that I made an incorrect choice and when I win it was because I genuinely out played the other team not just found a narrow exploit I could repeat over and over again. This is really the same reason people like really good singleplayer games like Slay The Spire or Monster Train in a way right?

    I say that though to underline that I don't have the mental profile of a stereotypical "competitive gamer" and that the toxicity of competitive gaming environments turns me off, both when people lose sight they are doing something joyful together and when they are just plain mean to other people about trivial things such as making a noob mistake or they are sexist, racist or hateful in another way. I don't play virtually any "popular" competitive video games for these reasons, I stick to smaller indie games with fanbases that are very good at playing competitively but are generally excited about new players no matter how much they fumble around.

    The narrowness of environments dominated by manifestations of toxic masculinity bring us all down and it results in warped pictures of even the people that supposedly "fit in".

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago*

    Overwatch tangent. There are several flanking characters who though a mix of stealth or mobility take detours around the main traffic of the stage in order to initiate from a less expected angle.

    Sometimes this means two characters from opposing teams unexpectedly run into each other off the beaten path. Often times they duke it out. Others…they will silently crouch at each other from a distance to negotiate armistice, slowly approach each other, squat and jump a few times to be silly, then continue on their merry way. From that moment on there is established understanding that you only kill each other when protecting someone else on your team.

    The real awkward moment is when you have negotiated a truce and then someone from your team crashes the back room party only to waste your new secret friend. Rude.

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