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[–] 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 child)

I'm going to assume you are discussing in good faith.

Yes, it is the policy's responsibility to enforce the law. But they are also not supposed to escalate or use unequal force. Jumping in front of a moving car is "dont do this 101." She had diapers in her car and was trying to get away, not hurt people. In this case gunfire is never an appropriate and justified force. If she had a bomb in her car and said "I'm going to go blow up the elementary school" and sped off towards the school, I'd understand using lethal force to stop her.

Your home invasion part created a lot of unnecessary arguments. In most states, if you shot someone fleeing in their car when they were no longer threatening your life, you'd be convicted of murder. You then conflate accepting an attack on you with shooting someone that was clearly fleeing because they previously threatened you. I'm also not sure why you even brought up shooting an 8 year old running across your yard, that isn't relevant to this situation and I think everyone can agree that's wrong no matter what, no matter how old the person is.

It doesn't matter if states laws are nonsensical, and that's kind of the point. You also confuse what you're willing to accept to do to protect your family with what is legal. In some states you have a duty to warn them or allow them to retreat if they are not directly threatening you, and being in your home unlawfully is not automatically threatening you.

Your emotional conviction to protect your children is not being argued. The point was that even in a situation, where a civilian such as yourself fears the safety of their children, you could have a duty to warn or allow an invader to flee your house depending on the state you live in. While a trained and professional police officer escalated a nonlethal situation by jumping in front of a moving vehicle, and then further escalated it by using lethal force and murdered a person. Even worse, it was legally "justified" despite being completely unreasonable.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 week ago

    I am discussing in good faith.

    I agree completely. Police should use their best judgement and not immediately gravitate to force.

    My argument unfortunately is coming from a place of not understanding the whole situation. I would need to investigate far further. For example, was she driving in a way meaning to escape police custody where she was almost running over innocent people? I don't know. Did a cop simply leap in front of her car stupidly? I don't know.

    I remember a big debate on Reddit some years ago about a couple of Mexican men in a shootout with police where there were thousands of posts all bashing cops. I was very interested (and I believe police are fundamentally just thugs of the state, and I am anti-government, keep in mind) so I investigated further and found videos where police had instructed the men to do certain things something along the likes of 27 times before they open fired.

    I felt like nobody took the time to actually know what happened. They heard a quick article in some liberal or conservative news network who only shared what they wanted to share and then listened to some people on Reddit and Tiktok and made entire assumptions of what clearly happened.

    And it wasn't much different of a discussion than what I'm seeing in this thread except that I haven't viewed any recordings or other information (don't know what information there is in whole) yet. I'm simply playing devil's advocate because I'm not one to jump to conclusions assuming all cops are evil racists who just want to murder babies. I mean, that's absurd. Then these same people are saying we should make laws/changes to stop this.

    OK so the solution to I hate evil thugs of the state is to use the state? There's a cognitive dissonance that I feel goes on too readily in societies today.

    "Your home invasion part created a lot of unnecessary arguments. In most states, if you shot someone fleeing in their car when they were no longer threatening your life, you’d be convicted of murder."

    But it doesn't matter what the government says. Just because something is set into law does not make it moral nor even logical/rational. If the government made rape legal tomorrow, should we accept that?

    If someone breaks into my home and tries to murder my family I am wholly justified to end their life, even if they fled and I hunted them down. There is no government, keep that in mind. The notion of government is illusory. It's propaganda that the ruling class has entire swaths of people believing that they can enact control over their lives and that this control is legitimate because they slapped a stamp on a piece of paper that looks official.

    What's the difference between a cop killing a fleeing murderer, or me? Nothing. There is no such thing as a civilian - that's more government propaganda, just like the notion of public property. You cannot take money from me, buy a lawn mower, tell me who gets to use that lawn mower, then say you didn't rob me because that mower is public property. All of that is sheer nonsense. You robbed me, used the money on something I didn't consent to, then tried to trick me into thinking it's legitimate because you have my best interest at heart and you did it for me.

    There are no government officials, there are only people. If it would be patently insane/immoral for your neighbor to do it, it's just as patently insane/immoral for your neighbor to do it if he's given a badge. The badge is the brainwashing. It isn't legitimate and it never has been.

    A good person cannot suffer the ongoing threat of the murderer. If you can cage the murderer, so be it, but even then morally it depends on who is agreeing to pay for the murderer's incarceration. What if I tell you I am not? Well, then you can either set them free or forcibly take my money to pay for it. So you have to be evil to cage evil or you have to commit to inaction and set the murderer free. And what exactly do you think I'm going to do if you do that and I see them in my neighborhood again, near my kids? I will kill them. I won't give them a trial. I won't ask them questions. I won't see if it's "ok" with anyone else. This person tried to kill my family once and other people decided they didn't want to pay to keep them imprisoned and nobody else was strong enough to kill a murderer.

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