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AI disclosure is no longer required for the Linux Kernel (lemmy.world)
submitted 2 weeks ago by to c/linux@lemmy.ml
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https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=14c897740388216acd59477a382de327d5e27ba4

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[–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (16 children)

The question is why it matters in the first place. As long as the person submitting code takes ownership of the code, and there is a review of the code being done the same as before, nothing actually changes. Your whole line of argument is absurd because it's premised on the idea that we can trust code produced by a human more than code produced by an LLM. And that's obviously not true because humans make mistakes all the time. So, the focus on how the code was produced is fundamentally misguided. The focus in any successful project is on validation through things like code reviews, specifications, testing, and other well established practices. That's what responsible teams have always done.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    To me, it matters because the use and reliance on LLMs demonstrably erodes cognitive capacity and ability, and submissions tainted by them should be subjected to an elevated level of scrutiny, which can only be facilitated with a consummate element of transparency. That elevated scrutiny could, and probably should, also be applied to non-LLM infected submissions, but doing so wouldn’t negate the labelling of authorship.

    Good faith proponents of LLM assisted tooling should be in favour of overt transparency and labelling, as it’s a requirement to facilitate future historical analysis of their utility, efficacy, and legitimacy; you know, to build a body of evidence.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 weeks ago

    I assume you're citing a couple of studies with tiny samples that have been going around here. There's very little solid evidence to support the claim that LLMs demonstrably erode cognitive capacity. But if you have large scale, peer reviewed studies definitively showing this to be the case feel free to share them.

    People lose certain skills working with LLMs, but that has always been the case with automation. Very few people know how to write assembly by hand, and practically nobody knows how to operate punch cards. Yet, we hardly claim that there was some loss of cognitive capacity as a result. People just spend their time focusing on different things now.

    And I've already explained to you why the focus on the tooling is deeply misguided. You ignored my points entirely, which tells me that you're not actually trying to have a discussion in good faith here yourself.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 weeks ago (13 children)

    To me it matters because if you got code from someone else, you'd probably want to credit it to them, right? So why shouldn't LLM output be treated the same?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (12 children)

    LLM is a tool that a human uses, do you also credit your IDE when you write code?

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  • [–] 0 points 2 weeks ago (11 children)

    My IDE does not write the code for me, at most it autocompletes words.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 weeks ago (10 children)

    The LLM works on the exact same principle as autocomplete does. You're just drawing an arbitrary line on technology you're used to.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (7 children)

    True in some regards, however the word completion in my IDE is only active when I'm typing new code in, it only picks words that already exist in the code (along with language specific keywords, etc). It never types the following word for me, and I have to manually accept the completion I want. It is inactive when I'm typing comments in, and so on.

    The LLM you tell to write you a function, and it writes the whole thing, comments and all. It's not quite the same. The original GitHub Copilot was closest to traditional IDE completion though, and there if it wrote a whole long function for me I'd definitely give credit where it's due.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 weeks ago (6 children)

    It's a different workflow, but all LLM does is just more automation. The intention and the ideas still come from the developer, just because the tool automates the work of typing out code doesn't really change anything. Nobody who's done any serious software development thinks that typing code is the important part of coding.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (5 children)

    The LLM can come up with all the implementation details and such by itself, while the developer only provides wishes for new features. Figuring out where to draw the line between it just being fully "vibecoded" or being code the developer would have written manually is super hard, so why not just always say if LLM generated the code? What's the harm in that?

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  • [–] 0 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

    Anybody who's actually worked with these tools knows that you absolutely can't just provide wishes for features and end up with anything remotely resembling quality code. And telling whether a human was involved in writing the code or not isn't hard at all because LLM written code always looks like shit.

    The harm in focusing on the tool rather than the code is pretty obvious. Doing so dilutes the responsibility of the developer, since now they can say the LLM introduced a bug or made a bad decision. When the ownership rests with the human, then they are responsible for the code and what it does. How the code was produced is also completely irrelevant, Either the code is clean and it does what it says or not. Nothing else actually matters.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    Or you could just shame them for not checking the output. People should never be get to freely deflect all blame to the LLMs, that's just stupid and the fact it happens is complete brainrot caused by these things.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    Hence, why discussion of whether LLMs were used or not is actively harmful. If you focus on the code and its quality then the whole problem goes away entirely. The person is responsible for the code and what tool they used is irrelevant. Your approach creates a whole new problem that didn't exist in the first place.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    My thought is to not focus on whether they used the magic generator or not. My thought is to know who or what produced the code. Since I think it's important to know where code comes from. Especially if dealing with projects that don't want any generated code. Obviously the kernel isn't one of those but still.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    Anyone who believes, and confidently espouses, that the autocomplete from the dictionary included in an IDE is functionally indistinguishable from the function and output of a LLM, is betraying a foundational lack of understanding of either. The former is constrained and deterministic, whereas the latter is explosively imprecise and intrinsically unreliable.

    You keep invoking the notion that LLMs are merely tools, and should be treated as mindless subservient instruments deployed by a programmer in command. The thing, however, with tools is they can often trivially become weapons if wielded with incendiary intent, or indiscriminate instruments of destruction under the direction of incompetence.

    Skill is acquired through use over time. LLMs are far too new for anyone to have legitimately accrued enough experience which could be mistaken for competence. With this in mind, anyone claiming to know what they, or the model they’re poking with a prompt, are doing, is a charlatan.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 weeks ago*

    Anyone who makes lazy straw man arguments is betraying utter lack of intellectual integrity. Nowhere did I say their output is indistinguishable, what I actually said is that they work on the same principles. These are both stochastic systems.

    The LLMs are very obviously mere tools that are instruments programmers use. Every tool can be wielded as a weapon, there's nothing unique about LLMs in this regard. I also have no idea what this has to do with AI use disclosure which is the context for this thread.

    How LLMs work is well understood, and that's a completely different subject from how to use them effectively as a skill. With this in mind, the person who can't even make a coherent argument, and keeps conflating unrelated things, is the actual charlatan here.

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