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Fines up to £100 for playing music out loud on buses announced in new antisocial behaviour crackdown (news.sky.com)
submitted 3 weeks ago by to c/world
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[–] 3 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

Suppose you film it with your phone? As for making them pay, do whatever you do when they haven't got a proper ticket. Just be reasonable and it should be straightforward enough to police. Talking at normal volume is fine, making loud annoying noises is not.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    What is normal. Where is it defined? Is it some decibell? Is it ok if I'm slightly louder than the car engines so I can hear my voice?

    (in reality I hate loud people in trains so these are all theoretical but I'm interested in who draws what line on the sand.)

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago

    I appreciate your points, but this is all settled from a legal perspective. In practice it's up to whatever cop/judge/jury is deciding on the day. We hope that society can roughly agree on things like "reasonable" and it may vary in time and space, but it's the basis of a huge amount of statute and convention, and I don't think there's anything special about music and busses that raises new questions.

    By the way, you might enjoy this website which makes a fun quiz out of drilling down on these kinds of rules: https://novehiclesinthepark.com/

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    The problem is you have to quantify and then accurately measure "normal volume" and also clearly state exactly what constitutes an "annoying" noise and then if you do it opens up ways to maliciously comply.

    If you set the volume limits at x dB then can me and 5 of my mates each play 6 different dubstep songs at the same time below or exactly at the volume threshold? Is it OK for loud ringtones? Will there be a time limit to account for ringtones? If so, can I play whatever I want loudly as long as it adheres to the time limit?

    If the law is too vague it will be either impossible to implement or overreaching.

    I have personally ran into a few proper cunts of stewards or municipal police officers that just like to harass people and then give them a fine when they inevitably react. This sort of law is always used to oppress more than it's used to make everyone's life better.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 weeks ago*

    I don't! If you maliciously comply by playing something loudly which is so atonal and arrhythmic that you think it can't be defined as music the cop isn't just going to say "damn, outsmarted!" and trudge away sadly.

    See my response to the sibling comment, but laws (like this) have been around for hundreds of years and we (mostly) manage to apply them despite inevitable ambiguity.

    I'm happy enough to oppress people who use public spaces in inconsiderate ways. Society must enforce its norms, otherwise it's not a society. The norms might be immoral or unfair or imprecise, but it's what allows us to all exist together in some kind of sketchy (mostly) nonviolent (just about) cooperative equilibrium.

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