I guess it's a bit like religion for me. If you start talking about loving one another, you're good. But as soon as you bring Jesus and God into it, things get all fucked up and people start serving their own conception of god instead of actually loving one another.

For this discussion, it's glorifying the United States ahead of the ideals on which it's founded that is the problem. It often leads to people justifying all kinds of imperial horrors exactly counter to those same ideals. I prefer to shit on the United States and the flag, and every form of patriotism, and the people who remain are the people worth talking to.