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Modern cars’ smart features could be used to spy on you, drivers warned (www.theguardian.com)
submitted 1 month ago by to c/privacy@programming.dev
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[–] 0 points 1 month ago (12 children)

You do realize electronic throttles have been the norm for well over 20 years, right? And it replaces a lot of expensive parts with one single part.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (9 children)

    Sure do.

    And disagree. It replaces a cable with an overly complex potentiometer with circuit board and wiring that will fail and be irreplaceable 10 Years after the vehicle is Sold, rendering it unuseable.

    Every "improvement" on cars has been war on removing your ability to fix anything yourself or keep a car for life. Its all throwaway trash now made to stick you on a lifelong subscription while recording your every move (now with cameras inside too yay)

    Remember, "safety" and "protect the children" is how they take all your freedoms away. And it works because people are stupid.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (4 children)

    It replaces a cable with an overly complex potentiometer with circuit board and wiring that will fail and be irreplaceable 10 Years after the vehicle is Sold, rendering it unuseable.

    you mean a TPS? Easily replaced. Before that, throttle cables would get stuck after a few years of dirt and corrosion.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (3 children)

    Wrong. Ive owned over 20 cars and never once had a throttle cable issue. Throttle cables on 50 year old vehicles work just fine. Several have had tps issues. And good luck buying one when they stop making the exact model for your specific vehicle when the factory in China quits making them.

    Stop defending idiotic tech in cars that serves to only make shareholders money, like making everything a screen with subscription e brakes (joke).

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

    Throttle cables on 50 year old vehicles work just fine.

    No, they don't. They require regular maintenance, like very other mechanical part on your car. My 1980 Mercedes and equally old Honda motorcycle are both cable-controlled. The linkage in the Mercedes is all sorts of worn out, to the point I can't accelerate at full throttle anymore. And guess what? Mercedes doesn't make those parts anymore.

    Several have had tps issues.

    A Throttle Position Sensor, as you understand it, is not used on electronic throttle bodies. At all. Inside the throttle body, the stepper motor itself (which is not a potentiometer) feeds the position back to the ECU.

    And good luck buying one when they stop making the exact model for your specific vehicle when the factory in China quits making them.

    TPS sensors were often shared among several models in a lineup, sometimes carried to newer models, and even over different manufacturers at times. They're stupid simple to make and fix.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    I don't agree. And yes I understand the differences but I was grouping them together for simplicity.

    OK cool, you go make a tps sensor or a stepper motor TB and I'll go make a throttle cable. Let's see who can do it far easier. Answer: a fucking cable.

    You can keep your new rolling spyware computer cars that require a dealer computer to change oil. Not me.

    Do you hate right to repair or what?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    OK cool, you go make a tps sensor or a stepper motor TB and I'll go make a throttle cable. Let's see who can do it far easier. Answer: a fucking cable.

    You know what's funny here. You gotta get a cable made to spec these days, cause 1) nobody makes a cable throttle anymore so new OEM cables are scarce, and 2) it's hard to find premade aftermarket cables that don't snap in 5000 miles, so you gotta find a shop to do it, or you DIY it and buy the parts and spend the time measuring everything out. Even moreso if it's for a custom project. That takes time and is a very tedious process. I know that because I've had cables made for my Honda XR500. It's a fully manual bike, choke and everything. No computers anywhere, just a big carb and a big jug - but with modern LED lightning.

    Do you hate right to repair or what?

    Right to Repair's message isn't "go back to carbs". Our message is "give me the ability to repair and modify MY shit that I bought and paid for any way I goddamn well please"

    To fight against tech progression is antithetical to the entire point of R2R. We just want to fix it without having to obtain drawings/parts/tools from factories/manufacturers at obscene prices, or sometimes not at all.

    The fact that modern vehicles are rolling spyware has nothing to do with R2R, and everything to do with the shareholders demanding the imaginary money line continue to go up forever steeper, for that sweet, sweet YoY increase bonus. THAT is where your issue lies. Not at some random guy who happens to enjoy making tech his bitch.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    LMAO, tell me you have no fucking clue what you're talking about without saying it. And I'm going to tell you exactly why you're a fucking moron:

    It replaces a cable with an overly complex potentiometer with circuit board and wiring

    1. A potentiometer is one of the simplest electronic components, nothing more than a carbon strip with terminals on each end and a wiper in the middle. Every EFI vehicle with a cable-operated throttle uses this in the throttle position sensor, or TPS. Those fail more often than electronic throttles.
    2. An electronic throttle body doesn't use any sort of potentiometer, rather a far more precise component called a stepper motor. A stepper motor is little more than a geared-down servo (y'know, like what RC cars use), but with an extra bit inside called an encoder. That encoder is what feeds the throttle position back to the ECU. It also allows the ECU to command the throttle at specific positions based on engine load, for such things like cruise control.

    Right off the bat, an electronic throttle has already superceded the oft-worn throttle cable linkage, throttle position sensor, idle air controller, and overly expensive cruise control modules.

    that will fail and be irreplaceable 10 Years after the vehicle is Sold, rendering it unuseable.

    My guy, you know what a JUNKYARD is? Car-part.com? Fucking christ dude, go outside sometime.

    Every “improvement” on cars has been war on removing your ability to fix anything yourself or keep a car for life.

    I don't necessarily disagree with this, but you're looking at it from the wrong angle. The existence of an electronic throttle body isn't your enemy. At this point, they have proven several times over to be far more reliable than the mechanical equivalent: cable actuated throttle + TPS + IAC + cruise control module.

    Its all throwaway trash now made to stick you on a lifelong subscription while recording your every move (now with cameras inside too yay)

    Newer stuff, sure. After that tech has already matured. But the main reason for electronic throttle bodies was actually for emissions compliance. Snapping the throttle closed after a hard acceleration event causes a spike in emissions output. An electronic throttle body essentially eliminates that, while still giving you pretty much the same experience.

    Remember, “safety” and “protect the children” is how they take all your freedoms away. And it works because people are stupid.

    That's a different problem. Seatbelts, airbags, safety glass, crumple zones, etc. have all been tested and studied extensively. Injuries have gone up with every safety advancement because those who would have been killed before are now able to walk away with scratches or bruises.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    Ya i know what junkyards are, just went there a few weeks ago. Good luck getting many working electronic components that have been sitting in the rain and sun.

    Also, nothing feels as good and snappy as a cable. Electronic are laggy as fuck.

    I can also guarantee I can do more on my 90s car than you can in your garage with any vehicle made after 2016, with affordable tools.

    I agree with you on safety, different issue. Seatbelts dobt mean we need a GPS and internet capable car filled with screens. Thats just idiocy pedaled by car mfgs.

    I still don't agree we need all this bullshit in cars when they were perfected in the 90s. All you need is efi and abs breaks if you dont want to be maintaining a carb and be relatively safe. The issue is now cars are wayyyy to computerized and you can't even replace your throttle module and or tps without a dealer locked computer. Thats what I'm saying here. Computerizing cars leads to this always, so better to leave them mechanical where they CAN'T ever control what I do with my vehicle.

    I just dont understand the defense of new vehicles, myself. They all suck (and are all hideous and huge) and if you gave me the choice between new 1999 Tacoma and 2027 Tacoma, I'll take the 99 EVERY time 0 questions asked (*with frame rust coating, ofc).

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    So, here's the deal. The cars you see as "simple EFI", like 90s/00s cars, are still highly computerized. My 2008 Sienna has at least 10 different computers, yet has none of the "smart" stuff and no serial/VIN pairing... Well, except maybe like the security module, but nobody gives a shit about that and it can be tuned out anyway.

    This era of vehicle is my favorite to tinker with, because in my own career I specialize in low voltage electronic systems, automation, mechanical systems, and making it all play nice together from a computer.

    (Proofreading Lka1988 here - long tangent warning)

    Well it turns out that vehicles made from the mid-2000s through the mid-to-late 2010s is perfect for someone like me. I have two Toyotas: the aforementioned Sienna, and a 2015 Highlander. Both have the same engine, the legendary 2GR-FE V6, based in the same platform (Camry), yet drive completely differently in terms of engine control and the precision of it.

    • The Highlander has a beautiful, smooth as silk U660F 6-speed and glides through the gears up to speed.

    • Meanwhile, the Sienna just absolutely fucking freight-trains itself to speed through the ever-clunky U151E 5-speed with 277k original miles and a sporadic ATF/filter change thrown in for good measure.

    I've added a bunch of factory upgrade shit to the Sienna for dirt cheap thanks to junkyards. Adding fog lights just needed the lights themselves, the appropriate headlight stalk, and hey, might as well grab the light sensor from this XLE over here and it's headlight stalk....aaaand now I have fully automatic headlights and fog lights for $40. The harness was already provisioned for it. All the computers needed was to see the components. Worked the first time, 100% factory. I did this with the optional power inverter, auto dimming rear view mirror, all of the optional steering wheel buttons, hood latch sensor, and a bunch more factory shit that I forgot about because I did it so soon.

    Anyway, this isn't the first vehicle I've done this to. I added additional factory steering wheel buttons to my former 2013 Caravan, so its aftermarket Pioneer headunit and the iDatalink module had more input controls to program. Which I did.

    Point is, all of these cars never had a single problem with their electronic throttles, or any part of the computer systems that wasn't blatantly user error. In fact, the only kind of problem I've ever had with any of that kind of vehicle was a mechanical problem. The Caravan's transmission shit itself around 100k or so. The Sienna's power door cable snapped around 250k. I fixed it with improved parts from eBay for $30. The Highlander.... Ehhhh... it's only got 127k and hasn't given us a single issue in our many years of ownership. I get why people tend to keep them the longest...

    Although, I think I got you beat. My 1980 Mercedes 240D has 483k miles, and change. It just shat a valve guide. Still ran though. And I get why people love these things, they are stupid simple to work on. I had the freakishly-heavy cylinder head off in 3 hours. From "hood closed" to "head on my workbench". I took my time, too. This is a SOHC diesel, mind you, so there's also timing chain I had to worry about.

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