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Death to Israel (quokk.au)
submitted 1 month ago by [A] to c/mop
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Death to Israel
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[–] 1 point 1 month ago (5 children)

Calling every ignorant person we come across a Nazi seems like it would only serve to make them shut down and kills any hope they might think about the thoughtful replies they got about why their position is ignorant, including from me.

Being an ignorant person with shitty uninformed takes is not the same thing as being a zionazi. I think we should really try not to alienate people who might be amenable to understanding the issue better.

Making people defensive just makes them look for ways to rationalize and support their position, and far right ideology is built out of a persecution complex

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  • [–] [S, A] 9 points 1 month ago* (4 children)

    Zionism is Nazism. They are the same belief only with different people. Defending Zionism makes you a ZioNazi.

    Nazis don’t get empathy, they get beat and thrown out of leftist spaces.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (3 children)

    Preemptively categorizing people as part of an evil ideology for being ignorant and not understanding the conflict and historical background leading to current moment seems likely to only ensure they end up identifying with that ideology, given that its built out of a perception of persecution. If they don't understand why they're wrong, they're not likely to fix their shit, and I'd rather see progress than feel like I have the moral high ground from which to look down at someone.

    I don't expect them to be handled with kid gloves or given a pass for saying shit that enables harms. And protecting people here from harm of being exposed to ideas that enable violence must always come first, but I don't think many of the people who would truly be harmed by their ignorance are here. I just hope we can handle people's ignorance and shitty ideology in a way that results in less ignorance and shitty ideology, rather than more.

    Ultimately you're mod, not me; it is your decision to make. I expect you dont share my perspective but I appreciate you reading my thoughts either way.

    Have a good day/night :)

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    Seeing this little interaction here, and your long historical explanation comment below, even though it was two days ago, I just wanted to tell you.

    I've been in your position before, and wanting to inform clueless people of the opposing ideology, is a good thing to aspire to, and it's good to try in many other cases.

    However this specific person you're responding to, is not clueless, and their opinion isn't what it is because of lack of knowledge.

    Their comment, was textbook D.A.R.V.O. (Wikipedia link, see if you can track the exact sentences for each step lol), followed by the simplest moral grandstanding.

    It's exactly the comment a propaganda bot would make, and, while I don't think this person is an actual bot, the very core of what they're (probably thoughtlessly) writing, is 100% ideologically coherent and pure and intentional:

    "If it was not the Israelis, it would be the Arabs."

    This means they can strictly, only believe in one of the two following things:

    1. Either "Israelis" and "Arabs" (funny racist equivalence lol) are the same, and it's human nature to genocide without cause, which is why the Israelis have to currently genocide first as self defense to prevent something that hasn't happened, or

    2. "Arabs" "genociding" Israelis would happen with cause (I wonder what that cause would be), and prevention of that "genocide" is morally acceptable and neutral (therefore the causes of that enmity, are not deplorable (read: the current ongoing genocide is not morally deplorable))

    This is not a clueless perspective. It is the, textbook, fascist ideological perspective.

    One can never "stumble" into this opinion, whether a refined and experienced apologist, or just intuitively picking up the most useful and most defensible-sounding argument, that really represents their opinion, without understanding that opinion.

    That's a fascist.

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