Lemmings, please read the post don't blindly downvote because you don't like the title - this is a debate forum so if you don't want to debate, unsubscribe or just ignore, thank you!


final edit: I guess I overlooked the sentence in the sidebar that says, “A place for theists to come and debate atheists”. I am myself atheist (using the definition in that same sidebar) so please forgive me and treat this as a debate between atheists. Thanks everyone for the great responses so far. The original post follows:

As the title says - if you believe that our scientific worldview is accurate and mostly complete, and that consciousness is entirely explained by the interaction of atoms in our bodies, then you must believe in reincarnation.

Here's the reasoning. If you believe your consciousness now is the same consciousness that existed in your head when you woke up this morning, despite the fact that the atoms that cause your consciousness are now arranged slightly differently and interacting differently, then there's not just one single arrangement of atoms that will cause the experience of "you" - there are many.

If you believe, as I do, that the consciousness that exists in your head now is the same consciousness that existed in your head as a child many years ago, and is the same consciousness as the one that will exist in your body when it is decades older, then there must be a whole set of different atomic arrangements which all generate the same unique conscious mind.

The universe today is actually fairly young. It's expected that it will continue for hundreds of trillions of years. It is a huge amount of time, and if atoms have come together in the right way to produce my consciousness now, after only 13 billion years, then it's reasonable to suppose that over the next many trillion years, the right arrangement of atoms will occur again at some future time long after this body is gone. And in fact, it's reasonable to suppose that this very same consciousness will be produced many many times over.

I do see one other option: consciousness is recreated anew every single moment, and we only have the impression of being a single continuous consciousness thanks to memory telling us what the previous consciousnesses that lived in our bodies experienced.

So which do you believe? You will live for ever, or you actually only live for a split second?


I'm not any kind of Buddhist or anything. In fact I'm vehemently opposed to religions of all kinds. I do believe science offers the best way to look at the world. Unlike religion, science starts from the reality that we do not know anything for sure.

Science questions everything and, from a starting point of pure ignorance, has gradually, cautiously and carefully, built up a coherent worldview that delivers real results - which is so much more than any religion can say.

However there are still very big and very important questions that have not been answered, and which we do not seem any closer to answering - to name but two, why am I me and not someone else, and what will happen to me when I die.

These are extremely important questions, and the honest approach right now is to say, "I don't know" and continue to live in ignorance.

By posing the question of this debate post, I'd like to challenge the seemingly widespread belief amongst atheists that once we die, we disappear as if we never existed. That might be a possibility, but it is far from the certainty that many atheists believe it to be.

I guess I overlooked the sentence in the sidebar that says, “A place for theists to come and debate atheists”. So please forgive me and treat this as a debate between atheists.

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[–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

You seem to ignore the fact that atoms on their own does not create a consciousness. Consciousness only appears when those atoms together forms the structures of cells, and those cells again form the structure of a brain. Each brain is a unique albeit temporary phenomenon, linked to the specific body it is part of. And even though the atoms that it is made out of may be exchanged, the structure of the brain which creates that consciousness remains the same (according to the biological growth and diminishing of it from birth to old age of course). So I don't think your theories holds up.

It is a somewhat poetic thought that atoms which was used to form our bodies may go on being part of the physical entity of another living body, but the atoms themselves carry no consciousness. They can create new consciousness if they form another brain, but that would be a different consciousness in a physically distinct brain which would have nothing to do with whatever brain they may previously have been part of.

It is a natual bias of your consciousness which insists that it must be universal, because we experience the world entirely through it. The thought of our consciousness not existing can be a difficult one, and thus we want to believe that somehow it must be eternal and not just a tiny blip in an incomprehensibly vast world, but in reality it is inconsequential to the universe, and the universe will continue to exist without it.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 1 month ago

    Thanks for the intelligent response. But if you don't believe in magic, then surely you must accept that the unique and remarkable phenomenon that is your conscious awareness is produced by the physical world in which your body resides, no?

    That world is made up of nothing more than shimmering blobs of unconscious energy, interacting with each other in myriad ways, bashing against each other, becoming bound temporarily to each other, breaking away again, in a remarkable and beautiful dance.

    Sartre said, in between heroic doses of mescaline, that the universe makes perfect sense by itself, and man also makes perfect sense by himself, it's only when you put the two together that you are faced with the absurd.

    If you accept that the amazing and inexplicable experience that you call "being you" is caused by nothing more than the interactions of atoms, then why do you say that it's impossible for your consciousness to reoccur multiple times, maybe even infinite times?

    To be clear, I don't "believe" that my consciousness will ever exist again, nor do I "believe" (in quotes to indicate that unfounded over-confident "religious" type of belief, faith if you will) that my consciousness will be extinguished forever upon my death. Either one is one of the many possibilities.

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