It was the fight for abortion rights that launched Gloria Steinem into feminism.

The idea that women couldn’t reach equality without the ability to decide whether or when to have children was central to the feminist movement of the late 1960s, which Steinem came to embody until her death at age 92 on Wednesday.

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[–] 1 point 2 months ago (6 children)

I've lived in Norway, one of the countries with the best QoL and support for kids. I have family in Singapore. I can assure you 'strong social programs and wages' are nowhere close to what kids actually cost. Finance is a huge factor.

driving force is that women have access to abortion, birth control, education, and career opportunities that they've never had before.

I'm not even disputing that they're factors. Go back to my original post and you'll note the only thing I asserted was WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH DATA ON WHETHER ACTUALLY REMOVING THE ENTIRE FINANCIAL BURDEN OF KIDS WILL HELP. You're not addressing my point, you're just busy with your own talking point that nobody's disputing.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago*

    I posted an article about this topic just recently:

    The wealthier Middle Eastern countries had birth rates around six or seven children per woman, but the United Arab Emirates “has a birth rate now that is lower or about the same as baby-scarce Japan,” dipping “to about 1.2,” Goldin said, while the birth rate in Saudi Arabia is 2.3.

    “When you look at what these birth rates were for just the previous generation, it’s astronomical change,” she said.

    The global shift, she continued, can be traced to one common cause: the increased agency of women, who during the last century became increasingly able to opt out of traditional family roles to pursue other options, such as education and careers.

    “Wherever you get increased agency, you get reduction in the birth rate,” said Goldin. “The central cause arises when women have autonomy and have the ability to be educated, to have occupations and careers.”

    Here's the full paper called "The Downside of Fertility"

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago* (4 children)

    You said there are no stats and there are. That's what I responded to - the stats are showing the trend of women's freedoms tied to the falling birth rates. And since women have more options to delay children or not have them at all, the economy will play a factor into them using those options that are available. And despite the economic hardships, women overall are not going to choose to have as many children as they did before gaining those freedoms and medical advancements.

    I don't think it's helpful to discuss falling birth rates without acknowledging that access to education, career advancements, and reproductive health options have a huge impact. That's one of the reasons conservatives across the globe are pushing to limit abortion access and take away birth control.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Yeah I'm talking to a stone wall here. You keep pointing to a very different situation and claiming it as data to prove your point when my entire point is that they're very different situations.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    They aren't different, they're related. They are intertwined.

    I'm having a discussion with you and bringing stats and sources. You don't want to engage in back and forth discussion? Don't push that there's no data or no statistics on this.

    There's a lot of stats on this subject.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

    I'm tapping out. You keep posting your stuff. I'm just rolling my eyes here.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago

    Aw you're no fun. Did you even read any of the sources I gave you?

    I'm not even disagreeing with you completely and I haven't been an asshole lol. There's a prevailing idea here that more money will make women want enough children to solve the falling birth rates and I think that doesn't show the full picture.

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