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Swiss tourist sentenced to a year in jail for insulting Bali's sacred Day of Silence (apnews.com)
submitted 2 months ago by to c/world
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[–] 24 points 2 months ago (18 children)

I think it is expected from tourists to behave the way locals expect them to do. It seems this day required by law and even if it is a crappy law by outsider standards - it is still a local law...
You don't sneak out in North Korea and tell everyone about you ditching your escorts - you don't even think of smuggling drugs into certain countries. You don't start making loud fun about Muhammad in Islamic countries... And so on.

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  • [–] 17 points 2 months ago (17 children)

    Then the tourist should just be deported, not imprisoned for a year.

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  • [–] 20 points 2 months ago (11 children)

    Being a tourist is not an exemption from local laws. That's why tourists got executed in some extreme cases before.
    Do I think 1 year is too long? Yes. Do I think they deserve a punishment for being a criminal in the local sense? Also yes.

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  • [–] 22 points 2 months ago* (10 children)

    Why punishment? Is the goal of prison not to reduce recidivism.

    Sounds like simply deporting the lawbreaker and barring from re-entry would be more beneficial as they would not repeat offend and it would save on costs associated with locking up a person committing a victimless crime.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (9 children)

    No that would mean no consequences for the criminal. If they just get away with a hand slap and a fee it means laws don't have a power over them and foreign money solves all problems.
    Perfect way to turn yourself into a territory for plunder.
    This act sends a message: do not disrespect our laws, don't come here and think you'll not be punished for your actions.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    What good does consequences do in this situation other than satiate a desire to make people suffer?

    Does the horrors of the US prison system stop crimes? Retribution based systems are not the solution to breaking laws.

    What it will do is force Balinesians to spend their taxes providing for this man instead of being able to be spent improving their lives.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago*

    This is one of few instances I am in agreement with Melobol:
    If insulting a custom is as cheap as a vacation expense, why bother learning to respect the custom of a national observance?
    Luzian Andrin Zgraggen didn't have to vacation in Indonesia. Heck, he could have flown himself off if he felt the custom was offensive. But he had to insult them, locals, and the people he was paying them to serve his wishes, all because he has the money to do so.
    All of us comprehend incarceration doesn't cease recidivism from rich swiss bourgeoisie, esp. a year’s worth. But what other way, than murder, do you see Indonesians can show they cannot be bribed for their respect?
    Swiss bourgeoisie are worse than Han bourgeoisie, because they can whim NATO into trade and embargoes so Indonesia is left Cuban-ized.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago* (1 child)

    C'est pour encourager les autres

    Also it would be seriously unfair to treat a foreigner any better (or worse) than a local that committed the same crime.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    I mean, I think the punishment is too strict for citizens too, although I don't know how Bali conducts its prison system. I think mandatory community service on the weekends would be better than locking someone in a cell.

    Foreigners should be immediately deported, like immediately shuttled to an outgoing plane. And they can sort buying back the items they lost later.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    What they are getting for probably very little cost (I imagine prisoners don't get much more than a cell and a cup of rice a day) - they now established couple of things, and probably the most important one:
    Nobody will think of their laws as easy to pay yourself out of it.
    There will be a tourist advisory for anybody to respect local laws.
    The tourists will actually shut up on the day of silence.
    And if these make less likely for rowdy and disrespectful people to visit... in my book that's all win to them.
    The guy - who is a total freaking idiot - didn't deserve to loose one year of his life, but sometimes you are going to be made to be the example.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Nobody is going to think of this article, it’s not going to be something on anyone’s mind the next time they don’t follow this law. Also it’s Bali, the cops shake people down for money all the time.

    There already is, it’s not like they advise people to break local laws.

    The ones who were going to will continue to do so as they always have, the ones who won’t won’t because they won’t think of the consequences. Considerate people aren’t so only because it’s the law.

    It’s Bali, it’s economy is the rowdy party island and a handful of extremely rich Americans doing spiritual yoga in a mountain retreat.

    All this is doing is imprisoning a person, with no long term benefit. But I guess some religious extremists will be happy they’re making someone suffer for disrespecting their religion.

    Prison needs to be abolished not celebrated. ACAB and all that.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    This was more of a “we need to show the world rules are rules, and not a vacation expense,” than religious zealots demanding an atheist observe a damn custom in a singular day. Luzian didn't came to Bali to have bem and some pecalur, he came to insult and berate the financially oppressed.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    If the tourist broke a law unknowingly, then your argument makes sense.

    Zgraggen boasted in Instagram posts that he had defied restrictions that prohibit residents and visitors from leaving their homes or accommodations except for emergencies.

    In video clips shared online, Zgraggen smiled at the camera and described walking to a beach during the observance. In one, he called the tradition “crazy” and used an expletive.

    This little shit thought he could openly break the law in another country and get away with it.

    Maybe the court should have sentenced him to solitary confinement, though. Give him time to meditate on the error of his ways.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    While I don't mean to be culturally insensitive to the importance of local customs, a full year's imprisonment as punishment is no more justified for someone who disrupts the cultural norm there than someone who were to do the same at holy sites in Mecca or Jerusalem; permanent expulsion enforces the custom in the same manner without incurring human rights concerns.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    If Bali has a rule saying you can't wear purple shirts on Tuesdays, and they inform tourists about it, then they can jail tourists who do it. It's not about whether the rule makes sense to you or me. That is the law there, and if someone wants to go there as a tourist they should follow it.

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