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Oracle sues Wisconsin utility regulators over financial requirements for data centers (www.wpr.org)
submitted 4 months ago by to c/technology@lemmy.world
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[–] -1 points 4 months ago (22 children)

i’m always amazed how it can be so hard for some people to think beyond whatever is immediately in their face

70% of the internet traffic is the fucking internet

just because you don’t like that doesn't matter

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago* (21 children)

    Internet traffic is not the internet. Thats like saying cars and trucks are the highway. I can’t believe I have to dumb this down for you, but here goes: T highway is that asphalt thing that sits on the ground between two places, right? And cars and trucks are the things you drive on the highway. So like, in terms of emissions, the highway isn’t producing all those nasty emissions, the cars and trucks are. So if you don’t like those nasty emissions, you can regular the cars and trucks, but the highway isn’t at fault. You could reduce the emissions of the vehicles, replace the cars with more efficient busses, you could even just ride bikes on the highway if you really wanted to. But all these things are separate from the highway itself, see?

    Just because you don’t understand how any of this works doesn’t change the fact of the matter which is that the internet is not taking your drinking water.

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    By your own definition, then AI is now the internet. Prompts and outputs are the cars and trucks, while the data centers and models are the highway. 70% of the internet is running on data centers and models. What makes more of something, 30% or 70%?

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    Not even. The internet is the highway. The datacenters running the internet are the department of transportation. Average internet users are the compact hybrids, EVs, and cyclists who use the road. Prompts and outputs are the couriers driving various kinds of vehicles. AI datacenters are the giant trucks with smokestacks that smokescreen all the old grannies behind them.

    The prompts and outputs traveling over the internet consume a negligible amount of energy. The bulk of it is consumed by training giant LLMs with hundreds of billions of parameters. A lesser portion is consumed by the inferencing those models do to produce outputs, which is done at the AI datacenters, and not what travels over the internet via internet datacenters.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago* (4 children)

    You’ve misunderstood. AI datacenters are not the highway. Prompts and Outputs are the cars and trucks, the AI data centers are the factories making the cars. The highway is datacenters and transmission media that do not house AI and do not require the immense cooling or power that the AI datacenters use. The highway and the things on the highway are two entirely decoupled things.

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  • [–] -2 points 4 months ago* (3 children)

    human transportation in the abstract is the internet

    data is people

    data packets / rates (related tech) are the various vehicle types

    there was a time of no highways, what need do horse drawn carriages have for paved asphalt?

    highways are a direct though not immediate consequence of American car and civic planning policy

    if instead we had focused on mixed use walkable cities with connected mass transit instead of urban sprawl highways would be much reduced if not gone, just look at existing examples in eu etc

    so yes American cars and every nuance that implies in our current American reality are fucking highways

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago* (2 children)

    Incorrect. Let me help you out here:

    Human transportation in the abstract is computer networking in the abstract.

    The highway is the internet, the current physical implementation of the computer networking transportation system we call The Internet.

    You can go into minute detail on what the cars and trucks are, horse drawn carriages, people etc, but ultimately, the internet is the highway. It is separate from and fundamentally not responsible for what you choose to put on it.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago* (1 child)

    my whole fucking point is that roads in the US didn't start with highways

    highways in the US came about because of American car culture and fossil fuel policy

    so American cars are American highways as far as how intertwined they are, this idea is so old it is literally a plot point in fucking Roger Rabbit

    the internet today isn't the internet 5 years ago, you the end personal user is no longer the focus of the infrastructure in the same way no one gives a shit about the horse drawn buggy

    the internet we have now is designed for bots, you can thank google and meta and the like

    it has accelerated to ludicrous speeds this year if you are paying attention and dead internet theory already had shit pegged as high as in the 60s before the ai boom

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  • [–] -4 points 4 months ago (13 children)

    i don’t care about fucking semantics, life must be complicated for you if you are this hung up on literals

    it’s amazing you can be so close as to use cars and highways and yet be so damn blind to history and the parallel implications

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    i don’t care about fucking semantics

    It's not semantics you fucking clod. They just gave an incredibly apt analogy in an attempt to explain how things actually work but you continue on with your ass-sourced "70% of the intetz iz botz hurr durr" shit without even attempting to understand why you're dead fucking wrong.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago* (5 children)

    It’s not semantics, the context of this entire thread is about the difference in ecological impact of two entirely different and unrelated technologies. This isn’t a philosophical debate. Life must be so difficult for you if you can’t ever see the forest for the trees because you can’t see things as they are.

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago* (4 children)

    unrelated lol

    this is the hang up

    how have the lot of you not been paying attention to what is going on with the internet?

    even conservative reports pre ai put the bot traffic at over half the total data volume, trying to pretend you can divorce the internet from ai is some silly head in sand shit

    there is no ai without the internet, where is the data being scraped from?

    why are small time sites choking with spider traffic?

    we can’t use the internet without tripping over ai

    all these data centers are being built in butt fuck nowhere, this only works with internet infrastructure to carry data to population centers, no one is investing billions for local kansas access for fuck sake

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    You're putting a lot of effort into deflecting from the problem. You're pretending to be upset about bot traffic, but instead of saying "we need to regulate AI or put limits on its development or halt all future AI builds or shut down the ones that already exist" you're just doubling down that "No, the internet is the problem. Kill the internet. Pay no attention to the AI datacenters behind the curtain, just shut down the internet."

    It's like a doctor says "You have an infection" so the patient asks if the doctor is going to give him antibiotics to kill the infection and the doctor goes "NO, DUMBASS! DID YOU NOT HEAR ME? YOU HAVE AN INFECTION. BACTERIA IS TRAVELING THROUGH YOUR BLOODSTREAM. WE ARE GOING TO EUTHANIZE YOU! GOD, HOW STUPID ARE YOU? CAN YOU NOT SEE THE REALITY THAT THERE IS BACTERIA IN YOUR BODY AND WE MUST PUT YOU DOWN???? I'M NOT HERE TO ARGUE ABOUT SEMANTICS!!!!!"

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago* (1 child)

    it’s not happening, the internet as we grew up with it is dead, you and me are not worth shit compared to the money being spent daily on ai

    it’s just more of the same shit situation with computer ram

    how much of the US gdp is nvda again?

    stop putting arguments in mouth, i’m not happy about it but i can see the reality on the wall

    the internet is a means for ai, everything else is entirely secondary for the last 3 years easily

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    More red herrings from you that I'm not going to engage with. You can't just throw out "Oh yeah? Well cancer is bad, gotcha!" when you're losing an argument about health insurance.

    I'm not putting any arguments in your mouth. This is how this chain started:

    You wonder, do data centers do any good at all? Some using tons of pure drinkable water is also bad.

    Datacenters? Yes, to an extent. They enable things like the modern internet, public goods like Wikipedia, etc.

    AI datacenters? No.

    70% of the modern internet is bots botting for bots

    i’ll take the drinking water

    Someone literally pointed out the nuance of the situation, that not all datacenters are for AI and some provide public goods that we all rely on. And you were basically like "No, the internet is full of bots. Shut it all down!"

    No one here is arguing for AI datacenters. We're saying not all datacenters are AI, and that's factually true but you can't seem to get it through your head.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (4 children)

    This isn't about semantics, you're just a dumbass.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    zzzz

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah, exactly. Not a single thought in your brain.

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