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If Phones Are Killing Pedestrians, Why Is It Only Happening in America? (www.thedrive.com)
submitted 4 months ago by to c/technology@lemmy.world
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[–] 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (14 children)

Is there any evidence that Europeans are better drivers than Americans? I'm not saying you're wrong, I've just never seen any kind of data about that.

Also I'm not sure where you got the idea that the US doesn't have sidewalks.

Edit you mean there are places in the US without sidewalks? Ya don't say!

Now overlay Europe over a map of the US to see just how much larger the US is. And then tell me that everywhere on the entire continent of Europe has sidewalks.

The person I replied to was suggesting that sidewalks are a rare thing in the US and that's absurd.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Casual observer here but i noticed a significant drop in cars in europe. People walk or mass transit. I’m sure there are stats for it but in a city where walking is 1st, people just pay attention more. Americans… will drive 2 blocks to the store and need to text BFF Jane about the latest tictok

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    Well I did some checking. Lots of what Google says nowadays in the first answers is hallucination though so feel free to correct if you know better.

    But "in a vast majority of states" as long as you're over 18, all you need to do is walk into a DMV and pass a "knowledge test" and a vision test. Then you get a learner's permit. Sure, you're not allowed to drive solo with one, but the supervisor just needs to be an adult with a license (and "capable of driving the vehicle" ie "sober and alert" but eh drunk driving laws in the US are a whole other mess, damn Murica just give your cops breathalysers. here they sell disposable ones at every register in supermarkets).

    In most states you can get that at 16 afaik.

    Here in Finland, when I went to driving school, it lasted weeks. You have to sit theory lessons, risk lessons, and then do driving with an instructor for a dozen hours or so and then you get to go take a driving test and if you pass, you'll get a license.

    In the US they usually don't even require parallel parking.

    I had to parallel park in a steep hill and then hill start from there while not stalling the engine.

    And after that, you get your phase 1 driving license. It gets taken away easier for fines, you can have like 2 in a year or 3 in 2 years iirc. I mean, you can't. You can have 1 in a year or 2 in 2 years but 2 in one year or 3 in two years iirc and you get your license revoked and have to do a driving test all over again.

    Then when you've had your phase 1 license for at least 1.5 years and have completed both night driving training and slippery driving training (you get taken to a rally track with hills and bends and it's all covered in either water and ice or in the summer soap and oil and water) then you can have your permanent license.

    So you know, by the idea that more training and higher requirements and harder to pass driving tests would mean better drivers unless there's a maaaasssive disparity in the populations and Americans are just naturally so much better drivers that they compensate for the difference training makes. Which... they aren't, let's be honest.

    Oh and most cars are manual. I feel like saying that a majority of Americans wouldn't even know how to drive a manual probably isn't a controversial statement, right? You're allowed to go through driving school with automats but then you won't be allowed to drive manual cars.

    Also, several different classes of vehicles and licences. At 15 you get M class, for moped or "moped-cars" (fucking rich kids, pappa betalar) at 16 you can get a A1, that's bikes up to 125cc and 11kw, then at 18 you can go for B which is regular cars, and nowadays I think only C1, but I did C. That's heavy good vehicles, large "semitrucks". C1 is smaller, lighter, semitrucks, they sort of split the class for some reason.

    Most of the American "trucks" the insane sized pickups would probably C1 if not C.

    If you want trailers then you have to also do E for them, and that's for each (but not bikes obvs) so for instance you can have ABEC which would allow you to drive a large trailer behind a regular car, but not a massive one behind a semitruck. (You can have a small one with C, just like you can have a small regular trailer or a camper with B if their mass is low enough). But to have full semitruck+trailer you'd need CE. Then there's also D which is buses. So you could have ABECEDE. (My dad had that I think.) A1 upgrades to a and A with "driving experience" which is just counted in years since you got the license, even if you didn't drive for that time. So if you drive A1 license at 16 you get a-license at 18 and A at 20. Lowercase a is bikes up to 600cc and 25kw (but people often remove the limits from it being 25, but will be very costly if you get caught, for insurance).

    TLDR the requirements for a driving license in the US are about the same as for a moped license here in Finland, and the requirements for a Commercial Driving License in the US are about the same as those here for a regular license.

    Sooo.. yeah. I think we can infer.

    Also, there's these:

    https://www.wardsauto.com/news/what-europe-can-teach-america-on-road-safety-killing-by-design-part-1/798798/

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0386111211000033

    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12544-014-0131-7

    Also I'm not sure where you got the idea that the US doesn't have sidewalks.

    I think they mean "curbs" actually. Or curbed sidewalks in general. And even if they don't, I've heard from lots of Americans how simply some places aren't walkable. As in there is literally no sidewalk, and you can't step off the road, as there's no "right to roam" in the US so someone could technically just shoot you for trespassing in the worst case, forcing you to practically walk on the road, which is being driven by massive and unsafe SUVs. SUV's which wouldn't care about most European curbs probably, having such large tires. But most average sized cars do.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    That was a super long response and I am not OP but I have heard that you can learn to drive with a private tutor in France, I think it was because they need to educate better drivers.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    Oh you can do that in Finland as well. You just need to have an extra brake pedal installed on the passenger side, for emergency braking. You also need an extra mirror, and a permit to teach. The requirements for a permit to teach are nominal, it's just that you have at least 5 years experience with the class of vehicles you're teaching (as you could teach a BE as well for instance, not talking about installing extra brake pedals on motorbikes lol), you're at least 25 years of age and have a "clean driving record". I'm not sure what disqualifies one with the record. I think it's probably somewhat subjective. Like a DUI definitely disqualifies you, but some minor speeding prolly won't.

    It's been increasing a lot here. Like when I learned to drive I knew of no-one in my age or near it who'd done it. But my sister is 15 years younger and when she did it my stepdad (her dad, she's my half-sibling) taught her. It's doubled since 2014.

    And I think the driving schools have less theory and driving lessons as well, we had tons. Probably dropped it so that it's faster for the schools to get more people in and out. Ie capitalism loosening safety regulations in the name of profit. Thanks, right-wing government of however long ago it was! ^(/s)

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    Thanks, right-wing government of however long ago it was! ^(/s)

    Haha!

    Also, did your father install all that extra? It sounds expensive.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (3 children)

    Well, step-father, to be accurate. I've never even lived with him, I moved out when my little sister was born or thereabouts. And I still had a dad long after that, so that's why I don't call him dad or father. (This paragraph was prolly more for me than for you, tbh.)

    But yeah, I used to think it was expensive, and it used to be, afaik, as you had to basically either buy and old drivers-ed car or extensively modify your own vehicle.

    However, someone came up/allowed it to just be a pedal on the passenger side that's bolted on the floor and which then has a hydraulic hose going to the actual breakpedal. So all you have is a pinky-sized hose going between the seats. You can either just let it sit on the console as it doesn't bother anything or you if you really want, take some panels away and put it through there.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    And I still had a dad long after that, so that’s why I don’t call him dad or father.

    Sorry for getting it mixed.

    I wonder how they will handle EV or other cars which has paddles connected by electronics. Perhaps a new cable hooked to the same as break will suffice.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah no wörries being pedantic about it is for me, really.

    I'd think EV's would be perhaps about as easy, or easier... in theory. But in practice idk if they always have actual hydraulic brakes. I'd still think they do, even if there's also regenerative braking.

    But for electric cars maybe it would be model based basically. Hell probably at some point the steering wheel and pedals will be wireless so you can change sides when crossing from left-driving traffic to the right and back. Then kids would drive from the backseat as a dare. If we'll even let humans drive in the future. I know automated driving is shit currently, but I was thinking of living for a while yet.

    I'm thinking at some point it will probably be that you'll need to hand over driving to a computer whilst in a city or smth. Then can only drive yourself outside city centers. That could help with traffic. I believe there's already large semitrucks or something which can sort of link in a convoy so only the first truck's driver controls the speed and steering and whatnot, the others are computer controlled in order to minimise braking and fuel consumption etc.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    But in practice idk if they always have actual hydraulic brakes. I’d still think they do, even if there’s also regenerative braking.

    I thought most of the input from the driver (steering, breaking etc) had a layer of computer between the input interface (steering wheel etc) and the actual moving parts.

    I’m thinking at some point it will probably be that you’ll need to hand over driving to a computer whilst in a city or smth.

    That is an interesting solution on how a first push for self driving cars could look like.

    I saw a documentary some years back about self driving trucks in Australia, a company used them instead because it was safer for a computer than a human to drive through the desert.

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