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I promise bro, just a few less Muslims and a few more islands bro, we're so close believe me bro (lemmy.world)
submitted 4 months ago by to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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[–] 5 points 4 months ago (10 children)

Is China really authoritarian? Like based on what?

I mean I'm from a country that has the largest prisoner population of any. Even more than countries with the a much bigger population size like China. We even have legal slavery in prisons. Prisoners here are made to work farms and even fast food restaurants. so maybe I have a high bar for that kind of thing. But every time I hear it I'm like why?

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago

    I mean they arrested an entire political party in HK just because they voted for pro-democracy legislation. Even in places with actual separatist movements, people usually don't get arrested just for voting aye.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago* (3 children)

    Ah so you’re in the USA. Just be aware, I watched a documentary where (Chinese) workers were trapped on a (Chinese) boat near the Galapagos, and they are essentially prisoners. And just like ours, they earned money too.

    For reference: https://youtu.be/2tuS1LLOcsI

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    Gave it a watch. Interesting video. The part about the conditions the people on the ship faced was horrific. I feel like I'm missing a connection though.

    Tell me if I'm missing something but they were kept their by Chinese companies right? Is the Chinese government involved too?

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    Yes, reality.

    https://asiasociety.org/policy-institute/decoding-chinese-politics/introduction-black-box-chinese-policy

    The US has the official largest prison population, but both China and Russia do not report these figures accurately. For instance, China denies Uyghur detention and instead claims it is just worker retraining. China would have the largest prison population if you counted them.

    The worst part of the US is not just its prisons are massive and full, but that they are jam packed with minorities. This is the modern telltale sign that we have been always been a fascist nation. That and an incredible ever growing wealth gap.

    The crazy thing is that China is now producing more billionaires than the US. As the above link alluded to they are marching to the right into neoauthoratarianism for awhile now.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (3 children)

    Im not going to read that source. I try to avoid CIA funded sources like asiasociety (archived New York times source about its CIA funding)

    "The US has the official largest prison population, but both China and Russia do not report these figures accurately. For instance, China denies Uyghur detention and instead claims it is just worker retraining. China would have the largest prison population if you counted them."

    Can't say I'd be surprised to find out China and or Russia is lying about their prison population size but what do we have that suggests they are? Like I feel like there is something but I haven't seen it. Just looking for anything more concrete. Preferably not a source funded by a government I already have reason to not believe. I'm really gonna need something to believe they have the biggest prison population of any country.

    "The worst part of the US is not just its prisons are massive and full, but that they are jam packed with minorities. This is the modern telltale sign that we have been always been a fascist nation. That and an incredible ever growing wealth gap."

    Couldn't agree with this part more comrade.

    I found the "yes reality" bit you started with a little obnoxious but I think you are responding honestly and put effort into your reply and we'll I can't really judge for being obnoxious can I? Lol

    I'd also wager we would both want similar futures but would disagree more on what is and has been. I'm not looking to be shitty I'm looking for info I might be missing. If you have sources or facts that don't require me to put trust in the USA and what it funds I'd love to see them.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (2 children)

    You are never going to find a completely impartial source. I vetted the one I provided for accuracy and I was impressed with its explanation of the complexities of the current Chinese government.

    I also found your original question a little flippant, so that is why I gave such a blunt answer. I was not trying to be obnoxious, but I can see how you would think that.

    While I postulated China may have more total prisoners, their population is considerably higher than the US. So proportionally to population level,(per capita) I still think the US would be number one.

    I don't speak any languages of China so my ability to research primary sources is greatly limited. Having said that, I am about as impartial as they come and I am good at separating the true bits of propaganda from the falsehoods and exaggerations.

    I am sure you see things from your perspective and I see them from mine. I personally look at metrics like policies and their results rather than opinions. For me, the biggest indicator of fascism is the wealth gap. In this respect we can see most of the developed world including China is run by monied interests dominated by an inefficient system of late stage capitalism.

    Although I appreciate leftist thought and I have marched with the socialists in the past, I no longer feel they can move the needle. Fanciful thoughts of revolution are just that. The reality is any revolution would likely produce a much worse system than we have now. China is a great study of how capitalism can be somewhat efficient at first, but then quickly perverted into a system that has created the biggest wealth gap in history.

    There are many possible solutions or ways forwards and the best are ones that serve all parties to some degree. There will always be winners and losers in policy but the test of good policy is is it palatable to the loser.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    That totally unbiased source thing is not what I said at all. I said I don't read CIA funded sources. I try not to take governments words about their geopolitical enemies all toy serious because they have motivation to lie. If the CIA is funding it then it's propaganda. I mean while else would they?

    You say postulated now but you just asserted that China actually has a bigger prison population. I just asked for evidence.

    The wealth gap piece is interesting to me. I've searched around and found a bit on it and how it's rising to levels like the USA. But I didn't find one where they caught up. I'd love to see a non CIA funded one.

    Where do you get the idea that a revolution would create something worse than we have now? I've heard it around before but don't revolutions almost always lead to higher standards of living? My biggest concern would be surviving the revolution itself not what comes after. 🤷

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    While everything is certainly propaganda not everything is CIA propaganda. I find your over reliance on this rhetoric misplaced. Propaganda comes from numerous sources. For instance, the propaganda disseminated from the White House is very different than a CIA campaign in Iran meant to sow discontent.

    Knowing the source and what they are trying to convey is paramount in understanding it. Sometimes just the act of communicating itself can relay important information.

    I am not sure what evidence you are talking about. Surely you can search per capita world prison population yourself.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate

    Like I said, you can see USA is number 1 with China number 2. China does not officially consider Uyghur detention. If they did it would add possibly one million more to this number bringing China to number 1. I thought I already covered this when I referenced my postulation.

    Rising like the USA, that is rich.

    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4024912/

    The fact that you even talk about revolution at this point is all I need to hear. Hey man, I get it. I was once there. I understand.

    What we need is practical policy that can be proven to work to be implemented. I don't care if your are a fascist or a communist at this point. What matters is fixing our objectively true problems.

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