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[–] 150 points 4 months ago (28 children)

I'm in no rush to be anywhere, anytime. If my caution and safety are a detriment to your schedule, that's your problem. Maybe you should leave with more time to get wherever you're going safely instead of trying to rush the yellow lights and put everyone else's lives at risk.

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  • [–] 74 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (20 children)

    This. Yellow means stop if you can (edit: if you can safely)

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Yellow means it's turning red. Beyond that the safest way to treat it is how everyone else in the area treats it. It's like what I tell my stepson, it's better to be predictable than right. There's a lot of dead pedestrians and cyclists that had the right of way.

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  • [–] 21 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Agreed that predictability is the priority on the road. But people shouldn't be expecting everyone to rush through yellows with disregard either.

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  • [+] -7 points 4 months ago (14 children)

    if you can

    That is the key though. I see so many people treat the yellow light like “you must be at a stop before it turns red… right now” and slam on the brakes even though they could have made it through either at their current speed or slightly speeding up.

    But instead they create a dangerous situation where the car behind them almost rear ends them.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    If you need to speed up to make it through, you were either going too fast or could have stopped. Which is it?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

    Lots of cities like to kill people by making their yellow lights short. There is no standard for yellow light timing. They have been getting longer which I like, along with all red periods.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (8 children)

    Red light cameras are partly to blame; it makes people more afraid to safely clear the intersection instead of slamming on the brakes

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    Only if the light timings are such that stopping in time is difficult. Which I know is the case in some shitty places, but it's the fault of the timings, not the cameras.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    It's a once burned, twice shy sort of thing where even if people are technically ok to continue through they might really (ironically) air on the side of caution and aggressively stop to avoid that red light ticket.

    Never mind some municipalities were caught shortening the yellow light timings specifically to aid the red light cameras in ticketing more people.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (5 children)

    What? No. It has nothing to do with the timing. You could give 12 seconds yellow lights, plenty enough time to get through, but as soon as you put up a camera, some jackass is still going to come to a complete stop rather than risk the possibility of a camera catching them "running" a red light.

    It has nothing to do with the timing of the lights, and everything to do with the psychology of people being recorded.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    If it lasts 12 seconds, you have 12 seconds between the light turning amber and it turning red. No-one is slamming on the moment it turns to amber, because no-one believes they will blast through it if they continue at that point. There is no risk, so the psychology of people can't make them avoid the risk.

    The timings are inseparable.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (3 children)

    You're assuming you know how long it lasts, as does everyone else on the road. That is an exceptionally poor assumption. You can't make that assumption simply because you set the timing on your traffic light to 12 seconds of yellow. To make that assumption, every driver who sees your traffic light must not have ever seen any traffic light with a shorter yellow. One driver whose home town used 3-second yellow lights and red light cameras is not going to know you use 12-second yellows, and he's going to slam on his brakes as soon as they come on. Your 12-second drivers behind him are going to be forced to panic stop because of him.

    If his home town used 3-second yellows without traffic cameras, without excessive enforcement, he's going to roll through anyway. He's not going to slam on his brakes

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (2 children)

    This is a property of the distribution of light timings across a territory, and is still not something to do with red-light cameras.

    If his home town used 3-second yellows without traffic cameras, without excessive enforcement, he’s going to roll through anyway

    He's going to blow a red light? And you think that's a better situation than him not blowing it?

    In my country I believe all traffic lights have approximately three seconds. It's enough; you need to have a good idea coming up to each light of when you're going to disregard the light, so that you've done your decision-making before it changes. Then, if it changes just before that point, you need to brake positively, not leisurely. Somehow, all learner drivers manage it.

    If you view amber lights as "stop as long as able" rather than "continue if able" you wouldn't be in the embarrassing position of seemingly advocating purposefully blasting through red lights.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    He’s going to blow a red light? And you think that’s a better situation than him not blowing it?

    Correct.

    After the yellow, there is a period of 2-4 seconds where all lights in every direction are red, before cross traffic is given a green. Our 3-second (no camera) driver completes his journey through the intersection during this "red all-ball" stage.

    This is a property of the distribution of light timings across a territory,

    That is exactly what I said. I went further, and reminded you that traffic light timings are not universal. They differ from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Generally not by much, occasionally by a lot.

    In my country I believe all traffic lights have approximately three seconds.

    Your country is the exception, then, and not the rule. Generally, yellow light duration is supposed to be calculated from the greater of the posted speed limit, or actual, observed speeds. 3 seconds is not adequate for an intersection 45mph or greater.

    and is still not something to do with red-light cameras.

    Where cameras are largely absent, drivers tend to favor "reasonable effort" to comply with the yellow. The "reasonable effort" driver will only brake for a fresh yellow light if they can complete a normal stop; they will not initiate hard, "panic" braking. The additional "red all-ball" signal stage provides ample protection. No additional danger arises from a "reasonable effort" driver choosing to proceed instead of introducing the unnecessary hazards of "panic" braking.

    Where cameras are present, drives tend to favor "strict compliance", braking hard and dangerously to ensure they don't cross the stop bar during the red and risk a citation. The "red all-ball" stage is superfluous to this driver.

    "Panic" braking introduces a risk of control loss from loss of traction, as well as excess wear and tear on tires, wheels, brakes, suspension and steering components. "Panic braking" poses considerably higher risks than a "reasonable effort" approach to yellow-light compliance.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    What you're saying is that at minimum we can get rid at least some of the inefficient all red phase if drivers actually treated the amber phase as they're supposed to. At maximum, we can reduce collisions.

    How long does it take you to brake firmly to a stop from 60mph then? Longer than 2.5s? Next time you're driving at 60 with traffic, use a fixed reference like a lamppost to count your following distance to the vehicle in front. I hope you count more than two Mississippis, cause otherwise if that vehicle swerves an obstacle at the last moment you're probably screwed.

    A longer time could be warranted for faster roads, but 3s should actually be enough. You don't need to "panic brake" you need to be positive.

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago

    I had two different instances of a yellow light.

    I was approaching an intersection and someone made their left slowly in front of me causing me to slow down as I approached and I kept going cause it was turning yellow and could still make it and got honked like hell.

    Next day I saw a light turning yellow well ahead of me so I applied the brake early because it's like a 70(km/h) to signal that I'm going to stop and then stopped before crossing. The person behind me didn't anticipate that and turned at the last second to just miss rear-ending me. My brake lights were active for a hell of a long time so I'm not sure what they were doing.

    I say both of these stories because I hate driving in general....

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  • [+] -13 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    How does rushing yellows put people's lives at risk, exactly?

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  • [–] 13 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    Because you don't know when exactly the red will come, so you might blast through on red, which should be obvious enough as to why it's dangerous.

    The point of amber/yellow lights is a signal to stop that you can ignore without risk if it's already too late to stop, as opposed to reds which are the actual protection against conflict. Is that not fucking obvious?

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  • [+] -14 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    The state of the LEDs doesn't mean anything for safety. It is however dangerous to impede on opposing traffic's right of way. Reds don't provide protection, it's just a clear signal for right of way. It's also dangerous AF to drive assuming green lights give protection. It's just right of way.

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Do you think running reds doesn't risk lives then, wise -ass?

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  • [+] -15 points 4 months ago* (1 child)

    It doesn't necessarily risk lives. "Running red" is dependent on the state of some LEDs. It's dangerous to impede the right of way of a vehicle traveling at high speeds. It's much less dangerous to run a red that's been red for one second rather than, say, 15.

    Driving itself risks lives.

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