I've struggled to be musical all my life--took lessons, took college classes, did ear training, etc.

I think I finally cracked the code, and it's surprisingly simple:

  1. Learn to play melodies by ear (starts with singing)
  2. Learn only enough theory to:
  • know your way around your instrument (scales, arpeggios)
  • understand chords
  • understand song structure
  1. Experiment (ie have fun!)

The most anal formal exercise I'd recommend is learning to hear relative scale degrees (two very good apps available for that)--though I think that skill would be developed by transcribing (playing by ear), it's helpful for your confidence level to have graded exercises you can have some success with.

But my experience with most of my music teachers is they fall into one of two traps:

For classical music, it's:

  1. Learn how to translate written notes into notes on your instrument.
  2. Go to 1.

For instance: I was taking clarinet lessons and I remember my teacher saying goodbye to his last student--a kid--and the teacher said, "If you bring me the sheet music for it, we can learn to play it." And I thought what a missed opportunity that was for that girl to learn to hear and transcribe music--obviously not a skill he thought was important to the teacher at all. And I'd understand now wanting to do that for piano, which is really complicated, but learning to play a melody by ear on a single note instrument is a very achievable goal, especially when you have someone that can tell you what key it's in and what the first note is.

The trap for jazz music is:

  1. Learn what are the "right" notes to play.
  2. Play them in any random order.

I used to blame teachers for just being bad at their jobs, but I think students (and maybe parents/administrators) are also to blame.

I ran across a senior guy who was trying to get back into piano. He'd played for a few years and it was clear he had no idea of how to be musical--no idea of how to construct a simple bass line, no knowledge of how to define a chord. So I said, "Hey, I'll work with you even though I don't play piano, I think you need to learn this song and just play the root and the five in the left hand, and sing the melody while you play, and use a metronome." What an amazing exercise I thought: it would help teach him timing, develop his ear, develop his feel, let him be expressive with his voice, let him embody the melody, lear to work the bass, etc. Aren't I brilliant teacher?

You know what this guy did? He pulled out his phone to show me some recordings he did of him playing the song the way his music teacher had written it out for him; it was what I expected--just haltingly reading the music with no sense of time. I wasn't sure, but I think he wanted me to praise him for playing such a complex piece.

For him, and maybe for a lot of students (and certainly for parents and administrators), they don't actually want to master music, they want to impress people. And maybe for the musically disinclined, haltingly playing a complex written piece is more impressive than a 2-note bassline in time with an expressive voiceline sensitive to dynamic; since most people in charge of music education (parents and school administrators) don't know music, maybe they would promote a teacher who taught the former and fire a teacher who taught the latter..

For jazz programs, I think they've got a lot of theory they've got to cram into the kids heads, and we can learn theory a lot faster than we can develop musically, so if you're going to be judged on "performance" of your students, you'll be rewarded for having them be able to pass essentially paper exams set to music more than for having them skillfully play pentatonic blues.

I don't know what the answer is, but for some reason, actually mastering music is very low on the list for both teachers and students.

What's all y'all's experience with music and music education?

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[–] [S] 2 points 4 months ago* (28 children)

I think teaching people songs they already know is really powerful because they've already internalized the music, and they just need to translate it to their instrument. Seems like a lot of music education is introducing a very tedious first step where the student's never heard the music and they have to learn what it sounds like by reading it and playing it. Unfortunately, because they're never forced to SING it, it might never be internalized, just a very complex pattern they execute with their fingers. This also cripples our ability to hear time.

In a world with plendiferous youtube videos and streaming music, forcing children to read music first and foremost is less excusable than ever.

I often wonder if people's fear of learning a new instrument is based on their music education. Like, "Oh, no, I have to do all this rote garbage AGAIN." But for me, learning the clarinet was really cool because I would just play songs I already knew (in the keys I could play), and I'd eventually add a flat or a sharp and thereby gain access to a new key which I could then learn songs for.... it's hella fun.

My clarinet teacher was in that school of getting people into college... it's a pretty sick society we're in.

But what really hurts me the most is how few people play any music at all once they become adults--that, to me, is the the absolute biggest failure of the music system. Music brings so much joy, I can't imagine my life without it, and I know it would also bring joy to so many other people with their high school band instrument in the attic if only they had a more authentic relationship with music.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (27 children)

    This was way before youtube, but I agree on that. I actually wondered what the state of music education was after youtube since you can look up so many different educational videos, exactly what you are looking for, instead of having to learn a bunch of stuff first, since people love short cuts.

    Right, good point on that last part and fully agreed, it enriches everything and it feels so good to be able to have a second voice in a way. A more expressive one that can sound any way you want. I think a lot of people feel like if they don't have anyone to perform for there is no point, but it is personally enriching first and foremost.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 4 months ago (26 children)

    What's your instrument?

    I supect guitar players are probably the least susceptible to this sort of thing, because they want to actually play music they listen to and are doing it for their own enjoyment.

    I do want to perform for people, but it's hard to find a good venue. One place I've been to is a super cliquey place with mostly young kids who congratulate you for staying up past 9pm. The other is a very insulated place in the 'burbs where people sit at their own tables and don't really mix with each other. Haven't found a "community" yet.

    It's kinda sad how few people play together. Mostly it's solo guitar, sometimes it's solo keyboard; if there's a second player, it's most often a drummer, maybe a bass player. But where are all the string and horn players? Who wants to be Grappeli to my toddler Reinhardt?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (25 children)

    Keyboards, synthesizers.. I've kinda always been into atonal or microtonal sounds. I do it mostly for my own enjoyment really I just like messing with sound :3 I am working on some less sequenced and more tonal stuff, it's all without computers though. I can kinda play a didgeridoo too :D

    Ah yeah that is kind of a bummer that you have no where to play, I think every community should have a square or something, where people can rent it for cheap for a few hours or a day or whatever, and perform their music or poetry or play or whatever. I guess we did have that, at some time, it needs a comeback I think. That would expose more people to music, they could just come and go at their leisure. People could also welcome others to play with them if they like.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 4 months ago (24 children)

    How do you do microtones on a keyboard? How did you get into that?

    The closest assemblage of buildings and sidewalks to me is mostly dead, I never see anyone playing, with the exception of Saturdays when an obnoxious hispanic church group entertains the homeless people camped out in the park near the bus stop with their portable speaker Jesus karaoke.

    We hardy have any foot traffic. Can't wait for ICE to disappear so we can get back to normal.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (23 children)

    It's getting a bit more popular these days, some of them have them built in, on synthesizers you have an oscillator pitch or frequency control that you can set from 0 Hz to 20 kHz sometimes, so you can set that up however. I have a Squarp Pyramid that has some microtonal scales built in, so I can play them on my MIDI keyboard and it uses that scale for the MIDI instrument I have selected.

    I got into it through ambient music. People like Brian Eno, Steve Roach, Vidna Obmana, Steve Hillage, Richard James, Taylor Dupree, lots of IDM too.

    Yeah that's what I'm saying, would be good to have a place, but then I guess before you have that you have to have a culture that respects and would keep that place clean for everyone else. That's really sad to hear I hope things get better than normal soon.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 4 months ago* (22 children)

    How about a pedal for pitch changes? I remember those wheels from the 80's and always found them super cheesy.

    I often had Music for Airports on a loop, but its never effected me musically.... maybe I should listen more carefully.

    Third spaces (restaurants, plazas, etc.) are famously and quite rapidly disappearing. Everyone stays at home until they work then they go back home again. Covid accelerated it, but a lot of our ability to entertain ourselves with devices is driving this isolation.. Then you decide you do finally go out and meet people to find there's nobody left to meet, so you go back home and pop in a DVD.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (21 children)

    Oh yep, I have several Eventide harmonizer pedals, notably Pitch Factor for that kind of thing. Before I had an Alexander Marshmallow which is a real fun pitch shifter, a Meris Hedra and Red Panda Particle (granular) but I had to sell a bunch of stuff recently so I cut down on my pedals a lot.

    Well, that's a good album, but I wouldn't necessarily call it the best ambient album or anything, it's just the "first" or whatever. There's a vast spectrum of ambient music from light to dark to quiet to walls of noise.

    I agree with you on the last part, and I'm just as guilty about it so I can't say a word, I just let it happen because I really thought everyone being online and talking would lead to a new universal understanding and world peace. Well, not quite that, but something near it at least. I suppose I've always had high expectations perhaps.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 4 months ago (20 children)

    Do you ever explore traditional microtonal music? I think India's pretty famous for its 24 note octave or some shit.

    I used to listen to an NPR show called Music from the Hearts of Space. I loved it. But because I only play traditional instruments, I guess there's not much room in my head for saying, "I wonder if I could play that."

    There's definitely a movement building. People are becoming more and more aware of the individual costs of social isolation. You can start with Bowling Alone, a pre-internet-era book about how society was getting more and more isolated... but I think the social tolerance of the captialist ordering of society is rapidly coming to and end.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (19 children)

    Yes :) I listen to a lot of goa trance which uses a lot of those scales, also a lot of psychedelic trance, psy dub, has a lot of different influences and uses a lot of those different scales. I think a lot of them are using loops and stuff because I don't think the majority of them have sarod, sitar and tambura players in their studios lol. Those instruments are also quite expensive. I would love to sit down with a sitar or a gayageum which is a Korean type of zither, there's lots of cool youtube videos of people playing cover songs on them haha.

    Oh that's a lovely show, I never got to listen to it live really but I have a bunch of recordings. There are all sorts of MIDI controllers nowadays, like wind controllers, that take your breath and finger positions and turn it into MIDI notes and velocity. Many other cool gesture controllers too. So chances are if you know an instrument there is a MIDI controller that can covert it to something a synthesizer can understand if it were to interest you.

    I hope so, I'm ready at least, I dunno about you but I was an early adopter to all this junk so maybe it will just take some time for others to catch up. Thanks, I will check out the book it sounds familiar and interesting.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 4 months ago* (4 children)

    I got a Roland EWI--it was actually my breakthrough instrument. Since my ear was good enough to figure out the root of the song (thanks to some work with some apps), I just transposed that EWI to the song and started transcribing away... I really recommend it because you can play literally any song you know and your knowledge of relative pitch is reinforced because it always has the same position (and I'm gonna go ahead and drag traditional music education for shoving students into learning multiple keys before the ear's developed (like, seriously, fuck recorders; they sound like shit and the only reason people use them is because it can play all 12 notes; you're much better off handing out penny whistles which lock people into a 7-tone scale in one or two keys until they have a stable sense of relative pitch, then give them a real instrument to learn).

    If you're in the mood, you can turn any guitar into a microtonal instrument. Just remove the frets, fill the gaps, and make some adjustable frets with loops of wire. I think that's how the original lutes were. Or just go entirely fretless--I think that's how the Turkish Oud works. Or play slide, which doesn't require any modification other than maybe raising the strings.

    There's also any of the bowed string instruments.... but that's getting into territory where you'd have to learn a lot of technique, which might not be your bag.

    Keep your eye out on Facebook Marketplace. Lots of weird stuff turns up there. ]

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (3 children)

    Oh very cool! I always wanted to try one but I never got around to it, some time I should just pick one up next time I'm able. What do you use it with usually? Agree about the recorders haha, I think it turns a lot of kids off.

    Yeah true, there's also MIDI guitars but those are again pretty expensive for a decent one. I think the wind controller will be good. Maybe if I found something cheap I would rip the frets off of it but I think I would feel bad destroying and instrument I'm not Pete Townshend :P

    I have no problem learning technique, I just don't like following a lot of rules :) There's also e-bows and things like that as well. Facebook Marketplace in my area is the most boring crap imaginable sadly.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    I just used it to get over a hump. There's a key that's a little sticky, so I've stopped playing it. It's an Aerophone Mini that's mostly self contained, but you can plug it into an app via bluetooth, not sure if it's also a midi controller. Probably not the best choice if you're looking for a bare bones reporter of your wind velocity-there's cheaper stuff out there for that (maybe a separate input alongside the keyboard?)

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (1 child)

    Ahhh I see, yeah there's breath controllers which are kind of like headphones with a little microphone but it's a wind sensor instead, but I'm looking for something to input notes. There are some new kalimba type instruments that are coming out that look quite cool, so that could be an option as well. I enjoy my kalimba but the sound is a bit limited, I usually just sit and pluck it outside to relax. Anyway, it was lovely chatting with you :)

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (13 children)
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (12 children)

    It's a style of trance music that matures on the beaches of Goa India, in the 60s there was a lot of travelers to India after the Beatles and the hippies all went over there, there were some people who just stayed. Over some time people kept bringing different kinds of records to these beach parties, and some DJs began spinning some industrial/EBM music, which mixed with some weird sound effects and other records, you get an early proto trance. From there some influences came from Indian music, other electronics music going on in Europe at the time, and the psychedelic hippie culture that was still going on in Goa. Here's some examples:

    Hallucinogen - LSD - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIsVzSMRw8E
    The Muses Rapt - Spiritual Healing - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VXAu_8z7hs
    Prana - Indigo - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rehcTJtGVs
    X-dream - Our Own Happiness - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE-Flmw3_4Q
    Prana and Athena - Moretsu - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwiX7UhQFOc

    Well, I could go on, if you would like more I'd be more than happy!

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    I had visited Goa in 2012. I would love to visit that place again. Have you visited Goa ?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (8 children)

    Checked the links. Too fast to be called Indian. In fact, that's not the local culture of Goa.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (7 children)

    How old are you? It happened in the 60s to 90s.. It's not Indian but has some Indian music elements to some of the songs, the music in named after the beach where they had the parties.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goa_trance
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cciUE5aefU
    https://www.gqindia.com/entertainment/content/the-incredible-true-history-of-goa-gil-psychedelic-trance-and-the-end-of-the-hippy-trail

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (5 children)

    I was born in the mid 80s. I couldn't find anything remotely Indian in the music. It's too fast. The traditional Konkani music, which is Goa's culture is very much different from this type of music. It's more the Americanised kind of music.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (4 children)

    Interesting that you say that, I think most of the people visiting were from Europe, that specific genre of electronic music was never really popular in America at all for some reason. I'm not sure what else to tell you about it, you asked what it was and I told you, I'm not here to argue the authenticity of it ugh

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    It's true that Goa is primarily haunted by the Westerners. It's the only place in my country where Westerners can be less like foreigners and more 'at home'. I don't have much knowledge about Goa, as l live on the other side of the country. But yes, Konkani music is definitely different from the list that you've provided.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child)

    Ah, I'm sorry if I ever made the impression that I thought this was somehow Indian music, there are other producers have infuse more Indian elements into their sound, but I know it's heavily from things like american disco, house, techno, german industrial, berlin school, etc. It's just the music they played at the beach parties there, the name probably sounded cool and ethnic to someone and it stuck I guess, as these things go. I do think the area is very beautiful though, I would love to visit India some day as a whole not just there. Thanks for sharing your perspective and the music

    OH! I just thought of something of interest connecting these worlds, here's an album from an indian artist from the 80s that uses an instrument that is used in a lot of other techno and later music, the roland tb-303, which was original meant to replace a bass guitar. This album was recently re-discovered, it was way ahead of it's time

    Charanjit Singh - Ten Ragas To A Disco Beat
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHEWnFgUCwM

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