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Past failures don't define the future of socialism (lemmy.ml)
submitted 5 months ago by to c/memes@lemmy.ml
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The people before us weren't perfect. Their mistakes are blueprints to learn from and build a better world

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[–] -5 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Once you agree with the Nazis on how to split the country, it makes sense to grab the part you wanted. But diplomatic cables reveal that the Germans would not have kept this part of Poland as they intended to uphold the pact with the Soviets. That's why there were extensive discussions to release these parts as independent states, so they could be controlled by the USSR as they had agreed.

Whether you agree on that the Soviets should have signed the pact in the first place is another matter, as it was a carte blanche to invade Poland gifted to the Nazis.

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  • [–] 8 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    But diplomatic cables reveal that the Germans would not have kept this part of Poland as they intended to uphold the pact with the Soviets

    So if they didn't sign the pact or had left this request out of it as you seemingly desire they would have taken it wholesale? So again we're back to the Molotov-Ribbentrop saving eastern Poland (actually Western Ukraine Belarus and Lithuania that was simply occupied by Poland) from the Nazi scourge (for a time).

    Whether you agree on that the Soviets should have signed

    They absolutely should as the last power to do so allowing the time for them to build up the production capacity necessary cause 80% of the Nazi deaths of the war.

    It really seems like you would have preferred the Soviets leave Western Belarus Lithuania and Ukraine for dead and do nothing to delay the inevitable war with the Nazis to actually recover to fighting strength post revolution. Maybe that would have been the more pure option but it also would have been suicidal idiocy.

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  • [–] -3 points 5 months ago*

    So if they didn't sign the pact or had left this request out of it as you seemingly desire they would have taken it wholesale?

    The Nazis were somewhat surprised by the complete collapse of the Polish government. They originally had not planned to annex the entire territory, but instead pushed for a surrender of the Polish to let the Nazis take the territory they wanted, leaving a Polish puppet state. When the Poles didn't surrender and saw their government disintegrate, that plan went out of the window.

    The Soviets had other options, eg joining the west in guaranteeing Poland or signing the triple alliance even if it wasn't everything they wanted. Too much distrust pushed them away from this option. At the time the Nazis weren't that powerful yet and fighting a two-front war, even against a less-than-ready Red army would have likely proven to be too much. Instead, Stalin opted to side with the Nazis in dividing Poland and sacrificed western Poland to the fascist terror regime (inflicting their own terror on the east). Ultimately the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was the final trigger for the invasion of Poland.

    In 41 the Nazis had gathered enough strength for a prolonged campaign in Russia, which in 39 they absolutely weren't ready for.

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