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Punish the Democrats, she says (discuss.online)
submitted 7 months ago by to c/leopardsatemyface@lemmy.world
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[–] -5 points 7 months ago (47 children)

I see you too are actively helping it then. It's your own words!

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  • [–] 25 points 7 months ago (46 children)

    Yeah buddy I wasn't saying not actively working against it was helping it. I meant literally helping it. That Administration was actively arming the Israelis and aiding in the genocide. Super weird that you didn't know that.

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  • [+] -15 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (45 children)

    Ok then tell me this, did Bibi like Biden? Did he want Biden to win? Did he think Biden let him do all he wanted? What did Biden say about Bibi in return?

    Then you can look at things like Republicans voting to force continued sales of weapons

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/16/us/politics/house-bill-reverse-israel-arms-pause.html

    Meanwhile; https://thehill.com/policy/defense/5429072-sanders-resolution-fails-israel-military/

    Tell me what Biden could've done that wouldn't amount to starting a war?

    You're such a ghoul, actively helping people like Musk and Miller and ensuring Trump won't put up obstacles for Israel murdering people in Lebanon and Iran. Because it's more important to you that people get martyred against their will for your personal ideological purity. You knew the genocide would get worse if Trump won and you decided that would be better

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  • [–] 23 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (23 children)

    Its illegal to send weapons or money to a country that is committing genocide. Biden could have simply said he cannot legally support Israel in any way and then just not. Instead Biden chose to lie for Israel aboiut 40 beheaded babies and provide unlimited diplomatic support, going so far as to bomb Yemen for resisting.

    Democratic leadership knew this would decrease turnout, they prioritized unlimited support for Israel over winning the election.

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  • [+] -8 points 7 months ago* (20 children)

    Ok then if you're right why was Netanyahu mad at Biden? Why did he want Trump to win? Because there's no such thing as unlimited support and then wanting to remove the person you're getting unlimited support from

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (18 children)

    Do you understand that a lot of politics is theater? You have to watch what people actually do, not what they pretend.

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  • [+] -9 points 7 months ago (14 children)

    This is a russian/eastern perspective. Theater has no effect on real life politics does. They are NOT the same. If you act like they are you are part of the problem.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    This is a russian/eastern perspective.

    No its not. This is the plain western world reality that politicians lie and posture. If you think you can trust what they say then I dont know what to tell you.

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  • [+] -6 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Yes they lie but that is not theater. That is a lie. Do you not know the difference? This kind of mindset is exactly what im talking about.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

    In Biden/Harris's case of supporting the zionists while pretending to be against what they are doing-- with nonsense like his idiotic and pointless floating dock, and his very temporary freeze on one type of munition-- "lies vs theater" seems to me to be a distinction without a difference.

    And do you remember all the times we heard that Biden and Harris were negotiating feverishly with netenyahu and talking about their concerns, for the Israelis to then say Biden never called them and there has been no communication at all? So how do you see that distinction between lies and theater matters at all?

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (8 children)

    This is a russian/eastern perspective

    Pro-genocide centrists (there is no other kind) say this about everyone who disagrees with them on their only policy.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    You can not be anti genocide and actively assist Republicans in making the genocide worse.

    If you genuinely oppose genocide you're obligated to oppose those who want to make it worse, and yet you're helping them

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  • [–] -4 points 7 months ago* (5 children)

    No i say this to anyone trying to downplay the severity of political involvement. The fact you dont understand this is exactly why

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    The fact you dont understand this is exactly why

    I love how centrists imagine that people don't understand them when they're just not buying their flimsy justification for genocide support.

    If centrists wanted anything more than they wanted genocide, they would actually have fought for something harder than they did for genocide. I don't think any of you ever will.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    I'm pretty sure you'll call the students who protested centrists for not being successful enough too

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Centrists blocked progress and supported genocide. Centrists have never been more successful at the only things centrists are for.

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  • [–] -3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

    Ok so then why are you refusing to look at what people actually did?

    Edit: Trump has been pushing for ethnic cleansing so he could have waterfront casinos and you guys love him

    You're all a bunch of traitors

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I think because your definition of "what people actually did" and mine differs a lot. Either that or we are talking past each other.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago

    Yeah, your crowd decided to help Republicans guarantee more people got killed and tortured.

    But you're pretending you have no responsibility for the consequences of your actions because you're such an ideologically pure idealist

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago*

    Because Biden's base was less pro-genocide, so no matter what Biden himself did, strategically the republicans would always be a safer bet.

    There was no level of support the dems could offer that would have caused Netanyahu to support them over the republicans.

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  • [+] -7 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Its illegal to send weapons or money to a country that is committing genocide.

    Cool. What’s the source, please?

    Also, does it work when we’re the one doing it? And is it strictly genocide or is it general war criming.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago

    Here's a list of domestic laws that were violated, to say nothing of international law:

    The Foreign Assistance Act, which forbids the provision of assistance to a government which “engages in a consistent pattern of gross violations of internationally recognized human rights.”

    Arms Export Control Act, which says countries that receive U.S. military aid can only use weapons for legitimate self-defense and internal security. Israel’s genocidal campaign in Gaza goes way beyond self-defense and internal security.

    The U.S. War Crimes Act, which forbids grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions, including wilful killing, torture or inhuman treatment, wilfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health, and unlawful deportation or transfer, perpetrated by the Israeli Occupying Forces.

    The Leahy Law, which prohibits the U.S. Government from using funds for assistance to units of foreign security forces where there is credible information implicating that unit in the commission of gross violations of human rights.

    The Genocide Convention Implementation Act, which was enacted to implement U.S. obligations under the Genocide Convention, provides for criminal penalties for individuals who commit or incite others to commit genocide

    https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/us-weapons-to-israel

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (18 children)

    Pretty trivially easy question. Biden could have done a lot of things -- vetoed funding and stopped running interference for Israel in the UN. And he could have called it a genocide and illegal on the world stage. Biden refused to call it a genocide. He could have called for an international force to stop the killing. He also flew recon missions for the Israelis with US drones over Gaza didnt he.

    And "starting a war"? with who, Israel? Are you stupid? That war would last 5 minutes. Biden took massive amounts of money from AIPAC his entire career, and called himself a zionist all the time. Your pretending he had no choice and was simply a victim of circumstance is pure lies. He was massively bribed. A corrupt peice of shit genocide supporter. He would absolutely lose his case and be imprisoned if the US had done the right thing and signed onto the ICC. He belongs in an orange jumpsuit, sharing a cell with trump.

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  • [–] -5 points 7 months ago (15 children)

    A war with iran. Because trump won we have now killed dozens/hundreds of iranians. People that would not have died if harris had won. So again what would biden/harris have done that would have amounted to starting a war. Are you stupid...

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (14 children)

    You are happy to accept this as long as no one had a non-genocidal candidate to vote for.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (13 children)

    No im not. Those iranians wouldnt have died if trump was not in office. Everyone who didnt do all they could to stop his assention is responsible for their deaths. They would not have died if kamela had won. The palestiniams would have died either way so they do not change the equation at all.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (12 children)

    The palestiniams would have died either way

    Good for you. You got all you ever wanted.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago* (4 children)

    The gall to ignore the deaths of Iranian civilians while saying this

    Just admit you prefer to let more innocent people get hurt as long at you can claim your hands are clean. If you can't uphold your purity you would rather let people die

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Something else to think about? If you voted third party or sat out, your hands aren't necessarily clean ofgenocide. Do you pay federal income tax?

    I would argue that contributing thousands of unaccountable $ to the federal government which you know is going to engage in violence and empire building makes one much more morally culpable for US actions than a single vote for president in a single election.

    Can those who think the moral action was to not vote at all or not vote D or R because that is support for genocide, but who pay federal income tax, care to explain how their hands are clean?

    To bring it back to the trolley problem, it's like refusing to pull the lever because to do so would be to acknowledge that the entire exercise is ethical or otherwise valid, while forgetting to mention that you personally financed that specific trolley and stretch of track.

    I suspect there a certain kind of person that is only interested in taking moral or ethical stands if the personal consequences for doing so are zero. How long do we think it would take for either major party to start begging the electorate to tell them how to behave if a significant majority of the populace decided today to stop going to work and to stop paying any taxes?

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    I'm not from USA (but your country's dumbassery spills over to us, see oil prices) and right now I'm actively avoiding American companies who sought to flatter Trump

    I did what I could to get your people to recognize Trump must lose, but you had too many who believed the lies

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago* (6 children)

    No i didnt. I voted for harris to try and stop this bullshit. YOU got what you wanted. Harris lost and now the world must contend with the consequences and even more people will die.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    No i didnt.

    You got genocide and no centrist has ever wanted anything else.

    I voted for harris to try and stop this bullshit.

    I voted for harris. I will never forgive myself for voting for genocide just because it was the less horrible option. You voted for genocide first, candidate second.

    Harris lost and now the world must contend with the consequences and even more people will die.

    You got the only thing you ever wanted. Stop griping that your close second choice is doing it instead of your first choice.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (4 children)

    Stop pretending other people are responsible for YOUR choices, you monster

    You're just not believable. Everything you say appear crafted to convince people to stop opposing Republicans' acceleration of genocide. You're trying to convince people to stop taking action to oppose evil, to settle for just complaining about it.

    You want people to stop taking action and stop making better choices because no choice is pure enough. But instead that makes you responsible when the worst outcomes happen

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    You’re trying to convince people to stop taking action to oppose evil, to settle for just complaining about it.

    I'm trying to get people to kick the worthless genocidal shit you worship to the curb where they belong. I advocate for the honest primaries you don't want because dishonest primaries are the only thing keeping your genocidal shit in office where you want anyone who wants to murder Palestinian children for your entertainment.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    You havent advocated for anything but voter apathy and disengagent. Your arguments herr are exactly why this is all happening.

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