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Macron Criticizes Trump and Calls on Allies to Unite Against US (www.bloomberg.com)
submitted 7 months ago by to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml
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[–] 25 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (25 children)

Is Europe's hostility towards China not a function of US hegemony? Surely there's less reason to be hostile now.

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  • [–] [S] 24 points 7 months ago* (24 children)

    In a sane world yes, but in reality there's a lot of racism and notions of white supremacy at play here.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (23 children)

    It is more than "racism and notions of white supremacy", EU and China are both exporting and manufacturing powers. China recently moved into exporting the high value manufacturing products like cars which are a large part of the EUs economy making both blocks rivals.

    The Chinese government is using state subsidies to tip the balance further in the favour of Chinese manufacturers. This is just one example from one industry, this pattern is repeated by China across the board. The government is well within its rights to do this but the EU is equally well within its rights to protect its own economy from a form of trade war. It is incredibly reductive to just play the racism card while ignoring the real issues.

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  • [–] [S] 11 points 7 months ago (22 children)

    EU is not really an export power in any meaningful sense. But even if that was true, you could make exact same argument with the US which directly competes with Europe on exports. Europeans have had absolutely no problem sticking their heads up American ass as far as possible.

    Meanwhile, everybody is free to run their internal economy the way they see fit. The whole premise of free markets and capitalism was efficiency. It was supposed to naturally outcompete planned economies like China. If the model isn't actually working then Europe could acknowledge that and emulate what China is doing instead of whinging. Or accept that they have an inferior model of economic development.

    Finally, the EU very obviously doesn't give a fuck about protecting its economy. If it did, it would've never allowed itself to become so dependent on energy imports from the US. The EU kept paying lip service to the idea of going green, but refused to invest into stuff like wind and solar because it came from China. Now the EU finds itself being bent over a barrel by Americans. And it's frankly well deserved.

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  • [–] -5 points 7 months ago (21 children)

    EU is not really an export power in any meaningful sense

    Are you sure buddy? The only powers who can compete with the EU by value are China and the USA. Come correct if you are going to bother at all.

    Every block is free to run their internal economy as they see fit but every other block is also free to set rules on what it determines to be illegal state aid. Sticking to the example of cars but this is also true for other Chinese industries, the whole point of the Chinese illegal state aid is to corner the international manufacturing market degrading competitors manufacturing ability before then increasing the price to profitable levels.

    Europe does not need to emulate China because China is not winning in any meaningful sense against Europe. China points to its impressive year on year GDP increases without acknowledging the low levels it started at. EU GDP per capita is still 3-4 times Chinese so even at their rapid rates of growth they will not come anywhere near EU levels in our lifetimes. This is before we even consider the difference in quality of life, Chinese workers regularly doing 996 schedules with the EU having a 40 hour workweek. The EU also has a better social safety net of unemployment, pension benefits, medical, worker legal protections, food safety, I could go on all day here.

    The EU dependency on Russia for energy could have been described as stupid, the current dependency on the USA is a direct result of this previous bad decision and will not be rectified overnight.

    he EU kept paying lip service to the idea of going green, but refused to invest into stuff like wind and solar because it came from China.

    What are you on about, the EU has purchased more than 50% of China's exports of solar panels and wind turbines , with 98% of the EUs solar panel imports coming from China. When you need to make stuff up to back up your point it's probably not a very good one.

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  • [–] [S] 6 points 7 months ago (15 children)

    Yup, the EU is free to set rules that harm its own economy. Has been working out real great for y'all, like when you made the brilliant decision not to invest in solar and wind from China. And you keep using this word, illegal, I don't think it means what you think it means.

    LMFAO imagine thinking China is not winning against Europe. Last I checked China has basic things like energy and fertilizer that are out of reach of geniuses in Europe. And sure buddy, quality of life, tell me more about that https://www.businessinsider.com/typical-chinese-adult-now-richer-than-europeans-wealth-report-finds-2022-9

    And yes, such amazing solar and wind build outs in EU, that they don't even shift the needle now that Gulf energy is cut off.

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  • [+] -6 points 7 months ago (14 children)

    like when you made the brilliant decision not to invest in solar and wind from China.

    Starting off your response with false information from your previous comment that I already disproved is an interesting choice mate. Over 50% of China's solar and wind exports go to the EU and the EU sources 98% of its solar panels from China. Doesn't fit your world view though does it?

    And you keep using this word, illegal, I don't think it means what you think it means.

    Illegal state aid, as in state aid that is against EU laws, keep up buddy, not that complicated!

    China is absolutely dependent on energy imports. One business insider article from 2022 that compares China to Europe, including regions like Turkey that are not in the EU. The Chinese median wealth is close to the lower end of EU countries like Poland and Romania and nowhere close to the higher end which are 10-15 times higher than China. You're a great man for the misinformation, nice try though!

    The world is a very different place now to 5 years ago. China has shown by backing Russia in the war against Ukraine that they are an enemy to the EU. Expect more trade walls to go up between EU/USA and China as we divert our trade away from China over the next few decades. China shouldn't have bitten the hand that feeds it, the rabid wolf warriors need to sit down.

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  • [–] [S] 6 points 7 months ago* (13 children)

    You could even get 100% of your panels, it's what total percentage of energy production that amounts to overall that matters. Absolutely incredible that needs to be spelled out for you. Let me try using an example that somebody with your mental prowess might be able to comprehend. If you have 100 power plants, and one of them is a solar plant that you bought from China, then you bought 100% of your solar plants from China, but that's still only 1% of your total power generation mix. Let me know if this example was too complex and you need me to break it down some more.

    Illegal state aid, as in state aid that is against EU laws, keep up buddy, not that complicated!

    Last I checked, China isn't part of the EU.

    China is absolutely dependent on energy imports.

    China is dependent on energy imports that largely come from Russia nowadays. And having cheap and abundant Russian energy allows Chinese industry to have much lower inputs than European industry does.

    nowhere close to the higher end which are 10-15 times higher than China

    You sure love providing sources for your claims. That's what makes them so believable.

    The world is a very different place now to 5 years ago. China has shown by backing Russia in the war against Ukraine that they are an enemy to the EU.

    When the whole world is your enemy, maybe you're the problem. Smug eurotrash deserve everything that's coming to you.

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  • [–] -2 points 7 months ago (12 children)

    You could even get 100% of your panels, it's what total percentage of energy production that amounts to overall that matters.

    Come on buddy, my 5 year old could formulate a better sentence than this. I can't even make out what you are trying to say with your nonsensical drivel.

    Absolutely incredible that needs to be spelled out for you. Let me try using an example that somebody with your mental prowess might be able to comprehend

    Then you have the cheek to follow up your poor English with insults of my intelligence. The hypocrisy is hilarious.

    but that's still only 1% of your total power generation mix.

    Do you ever get tired of being wrong, maybe try a bit of research before you open your mouth. Almost 50% of EU electricity generation in 2024 was from renewables.

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/ddn-20250702-1

    Last I checked, China isn't part of the EU.

    Never said it was Einstein,

    if they want to sell to the EU the rules apply and China is relying heavily on increasing EU trade now that the USA has tariffs on China.

    You sure love providing sources for your claims. That's what makes them so believable.

    The only source you provided was a 4 year old article from a rag of tabloid, "Business Insider", as if that held any weight or credibility. I do not count that as a particularly reliable source.

    https://www.euronews.com/business/2026/02/23/europes-wealth-divide-mapped-where-are-adults-richest-and-poorest

    This article uses stats from UBS global wealth report 2025.

    Chinese people's high relative wealth is due to high property ownership rates in the country, about 90%. The people in China only actually own the buildingz the government owns all the land, leasing it out for 70 years at a time with no guarantee of renewal. In Ireland I own my house and the ground under it until I sell it.

    When the whole world is your enemy, maybe you're the problem

    Incorrect again my friend, the UN votes on the Russian war proves this. Not even China votes to support Russia, they typically abstain like the cowards they are.

    Smug eurotrash deserve everything that's coming to you.

    There is is, the chip on your shoulder, lol. Have a great day buddy.

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 7 months ago (11 children)

    Do you ever get tired of being wrong, maybe try a bit of research before you open your mouth. Almost 50% of EU electricity generation in 2024 was from renewables.

    This is what's called lying by omission kiddo. Let's just look at the total energy mix, and it's a very different picture isn't it https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/interactive-publications/energy-2025

    if they want to sell to the EU the rules apply and China is relying heavily on increasing EU trade now that the USA has tariffs on China.

    LMAO that's not how it works Einstein. The idiots in EU can do idiot things inside the EU. They don't get to tell Chinese people how to live. But yes, you can certainly cut yourself off from the biggest industrial economy in the world and see how that works out for you.

    Chinese people’s high relative wealth is due to high property ownership rates in the country, about 90%. The people in China only actually own the buildingz the government owns all the land, leasing it out for 70 years at a time with no guarantee of renewal. In Ireland I own my house and the ground under it until I sell it.

    Oh man, wait till you learn about eminent domain. It's gonna blow your mind. https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/losing-your-home-and-homelessness/compulsory-purchase-of-property/#5bb406

    Incorrect again my friend, the UN votes on the Russian war proves this. Not even China votes to support Russia, they typically abstain like the cowards they are.

    Try to put more effort into our trolling not to make it so transparent lol. Have a great day buddy.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (10 children)

    My whole point was that the EU buys plenty of solar and wind off China, you are making a show of yourself now looking for holes to pick in the argument that you already lost. You think I am lying by omission, I think you are moving the goalposts after losing the argument.

    LMAO that's not how it works Einstein. The idiots in EU can do idiot things inside the EU. They don't get to tell Chinese people how to live.

    I'm glad you find it funny but this is exactly how it works Einstein. The EU found China was subsidising it's auto industry so they tariffed the Chinese auto makers that broke EU rules. It is not telling Chinese people how to live, live however you want but if you want to sell to us, which they clearly do they have to obey our rules. What do you even mean this is not how it works, this is what is happening right now, doesn't matter if you believe it or not, lol.

    But yes, you can certainly cut yourself off from the biggest industrial economy in the world and see how that works out for you.

    This is grand, we will just buy our cheap plastic crap elsewhere, lol. We should have cut China off the minute they spat in our faces by supporting Russia, Chinese support is the only reason Russia is still in this war.

    Oh man, wait till you learn about eminent domain.

    You accuse me of lying by omission, I will raise you with a false equivalency. Compulsory purchase orders value property at current rates favourable to the land owner. Not the same thing as the Chinese government owning the land under you and being able to low ball your short remaining lease or not renewing your ground lease. My wife's uncle had his house and garden bought by government CPO for £15 million in the 1990s, not a bad deal of you can get it.

    You then give me a selection of 3-4 year old news articles about the Russian war as if we live in a vacuum and they are still relevant. Nothing changes more quickly than people's opinions, your out of date articles are useless here buddy and don't disprove the official voting record. If they make you feel better in your feelings go on ahead and keep reading your old articles.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 7 months ago* (9 children)

    My whole point was that the EU buys plenty of solar and wind off China, you are making a show of yourself now looking for holes to pick in the argument that you already lost. You think I am lying by omission, I think you are moving the goalposts after losing the argument.

    And my whole point, from the very start, that you were replying to was that it's a tiny percentage of the overall energy mix, and that if Europe was actually serious about clean energy then it would be a lot higher. Incredible that you still can't wrap your head around this. Nobody is moving any goalposts on you. You're just full of shit and don't even have the dignity to admit when you're wrong.

    This is grand, we will just buy our cheap plastic crap elsewhere, lol.

    Imagine being such an ignoramus to think that's what China produces. You're like a housecat that thinks that it owns the house. Eurotrash are the most deluded people to walk this earth. You see yourself so superior to Americans, but in reality you're way dumber. Even idiots like Trump are running circles around you chuds.

    You accuse me of lying by omission, I will raise you with a false equivalency.

    It's not a false equivalence dummy. It's the exact same thing. The fact that you're trying to paint it as such is hilarious. You got caught lying loser.

    You then give me a selection of 3-4 year old news articles about the Russian war as if we live in a vacuum and they are still relevant.

    Feel free to provide articles that anything changed. And here's a more recent article for you to cope over https://thehill.com/policy/international/5816375-china-global-approval-surpasses-us-gallup/

    You're so bad at lying, it's frankly comedy gold here. Can't wait to see what drivel spews out of you next.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (8 children)

    And my whole point, from the very start, that you were replying to was that it's a tiny percentage of the overall energy mix

    You would still be incorrect, almost 50% of electricity generation in the EU was from renewables. In China this figure was somewhere between 35-42%. Sort out your own house before you go knocking other people's.

    if Europe was actually serious about clean energy then it would be a lot higher

    Imagine pontificating about what others do about clean energy while standing on a mountain of coal. China is the most polluting country in the world by about 3x the country in second place (USA) in terms of CO2 emissions. You dirty boys can sort your own polluted country before lecturing us in the EU you massive hypocrite. You are like a drug addict telling me to go easy on the sugar. I'll take my advice from someone with a shred of credibility, you talk to me about dignity? Please! Also you telling me in your last comment that we can't tell the Chinese what to do while you are telling us that we need to buy more solar panels from you, do you not understand what hypocrisy means?

    Imagine being such an ignoramus to think that's what China produces

    The world was fine before China joined the WTO and we will be fine if we were to stop trading with them, China on the other hand certainly needs our money to sustain its economic growth. If growth stops in China the whole pyramid scheme collapses, China can't afford to fight both the USA and the EU in a trade war, not with China's massive and potentially crippling debt problem. Maybe if China didn't do so many state subsidies they wouldn't be in so much debt?

    I don't get how you think Trump is "running circles" around the EU, there is no evidence of this here. The EU has finally faced up to its position in the USA - EU alliance and has made promising steps to secure sovereignty while keeping trade with the USA going and money coming in. Is China somehow winning with a 30% drop in year on year trade and falling with it's former biggest customer.

    It's not a false equivalence dummy. It's the exact same thing. The fact that you're trying to paint it as such is hilarious. You got caught lying loser.

    I'm not sure if you are lying or just don't understand that 70 year lease on every piece of land that is worthless at the end is the same as the government in Ireland doing a compulsory purchase order paying fair market value for your property if the land is needed for critical infrastructure. This is absolutely a false equivalency, only a lack of education would make someone think they were in any way similar.

    You're like a housecat that thinks that it owns the house.

    And you guys in China got a sniff of money and now think you are royalty. There is nothing unique about the Chinese economy and now that China isn't as cheap any more there is no incentive to buy from them any more. We will move the manufacturing of our cheap polluting plastic crap to Africa or India and if they get delusions of grandeur we can move it again.

    Feel free to provide articles that anything changed. And here's a more recent article for you to cope over

    First you give me out of date articlesthat support the view of your echo chamber and now you present me with this unrelated crap. Big whoop, China is now liked more than the genocide supporting imperial scum Americans. Congratulations on winning the tallest dwarf competition! America does all of that bad stuff and China is still hated as much as America. You have literally presented me with an article about how hated both China and the USA are, congratulations.

    We all know why the world dislikes China too, we haven't forgotten China's own ongoing genocide against its Uyghur people. All of China's neighbours dislike China as a result of their squeaky voiced sabre rattling around the South China sea while building their little loser islands that nobody else acknowledges. Both China and the USA suck ass.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    We all know why the world dislikes China too, we haven't forgotten China's own ongoing genocide against its Uyghur people.

    After seeing the other drivel you've spewed, it's no surprise you believe that bullshit propaganda. You really are trashy.

    https://www.thecanadafiles.com/articles/subcommittee-report-declaring-uighur-genocide-dominated-by-researchers-and-groups-funded-by-cia-cut-out-national-endowment-for-democracy

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Ok so first you accuse me of spewing drivel and an accusation that I believe in "bullshit propaganda" followed by an accusation that I am "trashy" whatever that means, I don't speak American.

    With all of this venom you were spitting I was assuming you were coming at me with some irrefutable proof of my fallacy, you sounded so confident!

    What is this proof, hmm...An opinion piece from what looks to be a newsletter called "The Canada Files", a group that for some reason reports exclusively on Canadian foreign affairs. I decided to have a read anyway and what I got was an article that had an almost unreadable style of prose due to the emphasis on the titles of characters and institutions tangentially related to the story to lend legitimacy. The "story" is light on evidence relying heavily on circumstantial claims. I actually looked at the "grey zone" piece it was based on and this was even worse. This is all just propaganda buddy and not even very convincing propaganda, it's poorly written rubbish.

    Now I'm trying to figure out if you are simple minded/poorly educated or are purposely trying to push poorly written propaganda? If it is the former, get educated before talking to the big boys. If the latter, get better at your job homie or you will be fired!

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    A Pakistani Diplomat Saw none of that. You believe propaganda of the CIA. https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/422970-pakistani-diplomat-narrates-visit-to-chinas-xinjiang

    Key part: To yet another question, she said, “I did not find any instance of forced labor or cultural and religious repression. The imams we met at the mosques and the students and teachers at the Xinjiang Islamic Institute told us that they enjoy freedom in practicing Islam and that the Chinese government extends support for maintenance of mosques all over Xinjiang.

    I learned that there are over 30,000 mosques all over Xinjiang that form part of the religious life of the people there.”

    Dan Cohen also refutes it here: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Hjurb61SZgk

    Moreover, here's a Colonel (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=00Cvx0R8iDo) admitting the USA actively tries to foment unrest in Xinjiang.

    A report out of Italy also begs to differ. It also discusses to some extent on what China actually has done. https://idi-international.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/New-Report.pdf

    Why don't we also see from the people that actually live there? https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkbOIKUddMBtp0_xEFqn4zey48kkgJq5w

    Meanwhile, your sources of propaganda of the 'Uighur Genocide' are...?

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 7 months ago (4 children)

    that's a lot of verbal diarrhea Lucas, should get that checked

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (3 children)

    You were really struggling in your last response, I knew I had you! A passive aggressive stock response, delicious.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah you totally got me. I bet you win a lot of arguments in your head like that.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    In a debate when the opponent can respond with nothing of substance and chooses to instead engage in pointless ad hominem attacks they have lost and I have won. I chose not to engage with your juvenile playground insults, they bore me.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    You're very misinformed on worker rights on China and overlooking that Europe isn't consistent in worker rights internally, the welfare and rights depend heavily on every state. You're also pretending that a deindustrializing region is in any way comparable to the factory of the world with a straight face. Europe benefits greatly from past colonialism and current neocolonialism, so of course the GDP per capita will be high. Just wait for Africa and Latin America to become more sovereign and it will all crumble.

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  • [–] -4 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    You're very misinformed on worker rights on China

    Am I now? I don't think so, next you will tell me that 996 isn't a thing?

    Europe isn't consistent in worker rights internally

    You tell me that I am misinformed about Chinese worker rights and you go and drop this gem straight after. It's like you didn't even know that there are EU worker rights that apply consistently across the whole EU. The basic rights in the EU are far higher than anything in China.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Am I now? I don’t think so, next you will tell me that 996 isn’t a thing?

    966 was a real problem in the private sector, especially in the tech industry, but the government started cracking down on it at least as early as 2021, you can read about that on the Financial Times. I went through a few sources reporting about 996 in China from 2023 onwards and all I could find was NGOs funded by the US government, a research paper that survereyed 12 people working from home during the pandemic, and personal stories without receipts.

    It's true that working hours tend to be higher across Asia compared to western countries (google the working hours in South Korea or India for example), but the difference is that the standards of living and purchasing power of Chinese workers is growing year after year.

    It’s like you didn’t even know that there are EU worker rights that apply consistently across the whole EU.

    My point was more that the guarantees, wages and welfare you experience as a worker is different depending on your status and country, unless you believe healthcare, education and paid leave are treated the same uniformly. Not every country in the EU is like Sweden or Germany.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    The 996 work practices do still continue and are just an extreme example of how terrible working conditions are across China. I would much rather work less hours for more money in better conditions that are available in the EU as the bare minimum by law. This goes to the quality of life issue, Europeans have more time off work to spend with family and friends.

    The purchasing powers of the Chinese people are increasing year on year (as are European who started at a much higher level but obviously can not increase at the same rate.) but the problem with China is that they are likely as a population to get old before they get rich. China faces demographic collapse over the next 50 years due to the disastrous one child policy. Demographics is destiny.

    unless you believe healthcare, education and paid leave are treated the same uniformly. Not every country in the EU is like Sweden or Germany.

    Some countries like Sweden offer their citizens extraordinary social benefits so it would be unfair to compare them to most countries. My point is that the EU minimum worker protections are orders of magnitude above anything in China. The EU does a much better job protecting the dignity of its work force than the "people's party" in power in China.

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