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dog lists obama (quokk.au)
submitted 7 months ago by to c/mop
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A meme showing a golden retriever sitting at a table with people, captioned: "My mom," "My extended liberal family talking about how much they miss Obama," and "Me getting ready to list off all his war crimes."
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[–] 35 points 7 months ago (14 children)

I mean that’s the reason we have the words: “better” and “worse.”

If something is “better than”, then yes, I believe it is better.

Y’all act like anyone said Obama was a saint. Hell, some saints have been worse than Obama.

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  • [–] [S] 12 points 7 months ago (13 children)

    It’s why the overton window keeps shifting, because the level of evil you accept keeps looking better in comparison to worse.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    It’s why the overton window keeps shifting, because the level of evil you accept keeps looking better in comparison to worse.

    ... would you like to outline the past ~70 years of the Overton window shifting to allow more evil instead of less? Or were we voting for saints back in the 50s?

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Why does it have to be 70 years? Can we do 10 20 30? Then I don't believe the overtone window is that obvious 30-40 years ago you were considered bad if you bought a right wing newspaper, people would stop talking to you. (Well at least where I am from)

    Coincidentally that is the period where workers had the most rights, which has slowly become worse with time in every western country.

    At that time they thought right wing people where against them having rights and quiet evil, they had been thought by their parents, who worked hard for those rights. Our generation has not learned the importance and given more room for the right wing to control our media, which then controls the narrative. Why is there so many articles about trump or Elon musk, I mean we have two idiots who cares, do we have to know that trump misspelled coffee?

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    Why does it have to be 70 years? Can we do 10 20 30? Then I don’t believe the overtone window is that obvious 30-40 years ago you were considered bad if you bought a right wing newspaper, people would stop talking to you. (Well at least where I am from)

    Yeah, sure, let's do 10, 20, 30.

    30 years ago Black folk were being called 'superpredators' and blamed for a 'crime wave', the push to dismantle the meager welfare state in the USA was wildly popular, immigration law was reformed to militarize the border and deportation, being gay was illegal in about half of US states... do I need to go on?

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    You are making an argument against your own point of lesser evils, we are debating if the overtone window has shifted. Which is obvious that it has. As I stated before media is owned by the wealthy even state owned media is controlled by the wealthy, they set the narrative, why do you think that they write and talk about super predators, so that becomes the agenda. And not that coperate america is fucking over the working class, and the politicians aren't doing jack shit about it.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    You are making an argument against your own point of lesser evils,

    What.

    You need to revisit politics in the 90s. Shit was mainstream that would make your milk curdle in the fridge.

    As I stated before media is owned by the wealthy even state owned media is controlled by the wealthy, they set the narrative,

    ... who do you think controlled the media in the West before 1990?

    why do you think that they write and talk about super predators, so that becomes the agenda.

    The absurd 'superpredator' line died with the lingering effects of the 1980s crime wave. I don't know where you're hearing it today.

    And not that coperate america is fucking over the working class, and the politicians aren’t doing jack shit about it.

    Sure, but that's not fucking new.

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (7 children)

    Ok what’s your suggestion? To keep going with “worse”? To what end? What if I told you that not everyone wanted Bernie Sanders? What if I told you we live in a world where we need to live with each other and we all have different opinions and values?

    Since you can’t get everything YOU want you think you’re morally superior to others around you.

    Would you say that James Buchanan and/or Andrew Jackson are better or worse than Obama?

    History is full of horrible presidents, kings and leaders. Progress isn’t a straight line.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    it's not about what you or i want; it's about having basic human decency and standing up against red lines like genocide; ethnic cleansing; and especially bombing innocent people from orbit or separating children from their parents to trying them individually in obama's case.

    pretending that these are little more than wish list item minimizes these nazi level atrocities and reflects your character as a human being.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (5 children)

    basic human decency, listen, I agree with you. But this is an assumption that you’re making. There is a percentage of the population (some think up to 4%) that are absolute sociopaths. We also have to live with them. Even if they would be ok living without us.

    It isn’t about a wish list. People will always be people. Until we somehow cure sociopathy or whatever drives people to be ignorant and cruel (my opinion on conservatives is they are probably borderline sociopaths).

    Our options are to work with these people or go to war and exterminate them.

    I don’t see how you holding everyone to your standard of morality (even if I wholeheartedly agree with you) is of any use in this. We HAVE to ALL live with each other and do the best we can. Aiming for your absolute unyielding moral compass doesn’t help.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    you're offering a false choice: work with sociopaths or kill them; that's surrender.

    don't beg killers to be nicer -- make their cruelty politically impossible.

    you say "we have to live with each other." fine. but living together doesn't mean accepting drone strikes on kids because 4% of people are sociopaths. that's not pragmatism. that's cowardice with a philosophy degree.

    the goal isn't to pick the lesser evil. it's to build a world where bombing children isn't a debate -- it's unthinkable. that's not moral purity. that's the whole damn point.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Ok. How?

    What’s your plan?

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    the plan isn't a secret recipe i'm hiding from you. it's happening right now, whether you notice it or not.

    mutual aid networks. rent strikes. union organizing. boycott campaigns. community defense. abolitionist projects that starve the carceral state. international solidarity that makes imperialist violence costly.

    you want a ten-point plan handed to a president? that's not how this works. leftists don't wait for permission from power -- we build counter-power. we make the old world unmanageable and the new world unavoidable, piece by piece.

    the question isn't "how?" as if it's some untested theory. the question is whether you'll get off the sidelines and help.

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