▲ 352 ▼ Iran destroys five US refueling aircraft. (www.vietnam.vn) submitted 7 months ago by yogthos@lemmy.ml to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml 171 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml [S] 10 points 7 months ago (11 children) There are no good choices left for the empire here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 8 points 7 months ago (10 children) Painful as it may be for underdeveloped egos, GTFO NOW and start making reparations seems the best option, but I'm an internet rando, so there's that permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] yogthos@lemmy.ml [S] 12 points 7 months ago (3 children) realistically that is the best option left, but the humiliation would be too much too swallow permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 4 points 7 months ago (2 children) Well, even the best developed egos don't often like humble pie. And I don't think Trump's handlers really care much about results, as long as they're making money. I imagine they imagine money makes humble pie taste really good, until they're the pie filling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] yogthos@lemmy.ml [S] 7 points 7 months ago (1 child) It's always possible that these people will find ways to profit from the crisis, and they genuinely don't care even if the US geopolitical position collapses, and US economy crashes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 5 points 7 months ago That's my current (very imperfect) best guess. permalink fedilink source parent [–] mirshafie@europe.pub 1 point 7 months ago (5 children) I don't think a path for deescalation exists anymore. JD Vance could maybe have taken the reigns by referring to Trump's ill health, promised to send more competent negotiators who could meet Iran in good faith, and essentially dropped Israel to save America (or at least give it a few more good years). But that's a very tall order, and he just went out to claim Iran is designing nuclear suicide vests, so I guess he watched Wag the Dog and took some inspiration. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 7 months ago (4 children) Why do you think that? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] mirshafie@europe.pub 2 points 7 months ago (3 children) Because all sides have so much to lose, so they'll pursue maximalist goals. The US retreating essentially means giving up the Gulf and by extension the Middle East, which is central to their doctrine of energy domination and a huge part of their leverage over Asia. Iran on the other hand is fighting for its survival and needs to expel the US from the Gulf to ensure they can nevet attack them again. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 7 months ago (2 children) Ok, but why do you think Vance can send more negotiators who will actually negotiate in good faith? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mirshafie@europe.pub 2 points 7 months ago (1 child) Vance, while clearly evil, is intelligent and flexible. I think that with some help he could find serious negotiators to send, and then he'd just need to make sure that there is clear communication. To be clear, I don't think he will do that, because he's also a coward, but I think it is within his ability to do so. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 7 months ago I mean it's within everyone's ability, outside someone with psychopathy, to do what the rest of society deems morally acceptable, but when they have a track record of doing what most of us find morally reprehensible, there's really no reason to expect a sudden change, until they prove they're trying, I guess. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 8 points 7 months ago (10 children) Painful as it may be for underdeveloped egos, GTFO NOW and start making reparations seems the best option, but I'm an internet rando, so there's that permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] yogthos@lemmy.ml [S] 12 points 7 months ago (3 children) realistically that is the best option left, but the humiliation would be too much too swallow permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 4 points 7 months ago (2 children) Well, even the best developed egos don't often like humble pie. And I don't think Trump's handlers really care much about results, as long as they're making money. I imagine they imagine money makes humble pie taste really good, until they're the pie filling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] yogthos@lemmy.ml [S] 7 points 7 months ago (1 child) It's always possible that these people will find ways to profit from the crisis, and they genuinely don't care even if the US geopolitical position collapses, and US economy crashes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 5 points 7 months ago That's my current (very imperfect) best guess. permalink fedilink source parent [–] mirshafie@europe.pub 1 point 7 months ago (5 children) I don't think a path for deescalation exists anymore. JD Vance could maybe have taken the reigns by referring to Trump's ill health, promised to send more competent negotiators who could meet Iran in good faith, and essentially dropped Israel to save America (or at least give it a few more good years). But that's a very tall order, and he just went out to claim Iran is designing nuclear suicide vests, so I guess he watched Wag the Dog and took some inspiration. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 7 months ago (4 children) Why do you think that? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] mirshafie@europe.pub 2 points 7 months ago (3 children) Because all sides have so much to lose, so they'll pursue maximalist goals. The US retreating essentially means giving up the Gulf and by extension the Middle East, which is central to their doctrine of energy domination and a huge part of their leverage over Asia. Iran on the other hand is fighting for its survival and needs to expel the US from the Gulf to ensure they can nevet attack them again. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 7 months ago (2 children) Ok, but why do you think Vance can send more negotiators who will actually negotiate in good faith? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mirshafie@europe.pub 2 points 7 months ago (1 child) Vance, while clearly evil, is intelligent and flexible. I think that with some help he could find serious negotiators to send, and then he'd just need to make sure that there is clear communication. To be clear, I don't think he will do that, because he's also a coward, but I think it is within his ability to do so. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 7 months ago I mean it's within everyone's ability, outside someone with psychopathy, to do what the rest of society deems morally acceptable, but when they have a track record of doing what most of us find morally reprehensible, there's really no reason to expect a sudden change, until they prove they're trying, I guess. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml [S] 12 points 7 months ago (3 children) realistically that is the best option left, but the humiliation would be too much too swallow permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 4 points 7 months ago (2 children) Well, even the best developed egos don't often like humble pie. And I don't think Trump's handlers really care much about results, as long as they're making money. I imagine they imagine money makes humble pie taste really good, until they're the pie filling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] yogthos@lemmy.ml [S] 7 points 7 months ago (1 child) It's always possible that these people will find ways to profit from the crisis, and they genuinely don't care even if the US geopolitical position collapses, and US economy crashes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 5 points 7 months ago That's my current (very imperfect) best guess. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 4 points 7 months ago (2 children) Well, even the best developed egos don't often like humble pie. And I don't think Trump's handlers really care much about results, as long as they're making money. I imagine they imagine money makes humble pie taste really good, until they're the pie filling. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] yogthos@lemmy.ml [S] 7 points 7 months ago (1 child) It's always possible that these people will find ways to profit from the crisis, and they genuinely don't care even if the US geopolitical position collapses, and US economy crashes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 5 points 7 months ago That's my current (very imperfect) best guess. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml [S] 7 points 7 months ago (1 child) It's always possible that these people will find ways to profit from the crisis, and they genuinely don't care even if the US geopolitical position collapses, and US economy crashes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 5 points 7 months ago That's my current (very imperfect) best guess. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 5 points 7 months ago That's my current (very imperfect) best guess. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mirshafie@europe.pub 1 point 7 months ago (5 children) I don't think a path for deescalation exists anymore. JD Vance could maybe have taken the reigns by referring to Trump's ill health, promised to send more competent negotiators who could meet Iran in good faith, and essentially dropped Israel to save America (or at least give it a few more good years). But that's a very tall order, and he just went out to claim Iran is designing nuclear suicide vests, so I guess he watched Wag the Dog and took some inspiration. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 7 months ago (4 children) Why do you think that? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] mirshafie@europe.pub 2 points 7 months ago (3 children) Because all sides have so much to lose, so they'll pursue maximalist goals. The US retreating essentially means giving up the Gulf and by extension the Middle East, which is central to their doctrine of energy domination and a huge part of their leverage over Asia. Iran on the other hand is fighting for its survival and needs to expel the US from the Gulf to ensure they can nevet attack them again. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 7 months ago (2 children) Ok, but why do you think Vance can send more negotiators who will actually negotiate in good faith? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mirshafie@europe.pub 2 points 7 months ago (1 child) Vance, while clearly evil, is intelligent and flexible. I think that with some help he could find serious negotiators to send, and then he'd just need to make sure that there is clear communication. To be clear, I don't think he will do that, because he's also a coward, but I think it is within his ability to do so. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 7 months ago I mean it's within everyone's ability, outside someone with psychopathy, to do what the rest of society deems morally acceptable, but when they have a track record of doing what most of us find morally reprehensible, there's really no reason to expect a sudden change, until they prove they're trying, I guess. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 7 months ago (4 children) Why do you think that? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] mirshafie@europe.pub 2 points 7 months ago (3 children) Because all sides have so much to lose, so they'll pursue maximalist goals. The US retreating essentially means giving up the Gulf and by extension the Middle East, which is central to their doctrine of energy domination and a huge part of their leverage over Asia. Iran on the other hand is fighting for its survival and needs to expel the US from the Gulf to ensure they can nevet attack them again. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 7 months ago (2 children) Ok, but why do you think Vance can send more negotiators who will actually negotiate in good faith? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mirshafie@europe.pub 2 points 7 months ago (1 child) Vance, while clearly evil, is intelligent and flexible. I think that with some help he could find serious negotiators to send, and then he'd just need to make sure that there is clear communication. To be clear, I don't think he will do that, because he's also a coward, but I think it is within his ability to do so. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 7 months ago I mean it's within everyone's ability, outside someone with psychopathy, to do what the rest of society deems morally acceptable, but when they have a track record of doing what most of us find morally reprehensible, there's really no reason to expect a sudden change, until they prove they're trying, I guess. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mirshafie@europe.pub 2 points 7 months ago (3 children) Because all sides have so much to lose, so they'll pursue maximalist goals. The US retreating essentially means giving up the Gulf and by extension the Middle East, which is central to their doctrine of energy domination and a huge part of their leverage over Asia. Iran on the other hand is fighting for its survival and needs to expel the US from the Gulf to ensure they can nevet attack them again. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 7 months ago (2 children) Ok, but why do you think Vance can send more negotiators who will actually negotiate in good faith? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mirshafie@europe.pub 2 points 7 months ago (1 child) Vance, while clearly evil, is intelligent and flexible. I think that with some help he could find serious negotiators to send, and then he'd just need to make sure that there is clear communication. To be clear, I don't think he will do that, because he's also a coward, but I think it is within his ability to do so. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 7 months ago I mean it's within everyone's ability, outside someone with psychopathy, to do what the rest of society deems morally acceptable, but when they have a track record of doing what most of us find morally reprehensible, there's really no reason to expect a sudden change, until they prove they're trying, I guess. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 7 months ago (2 children) Ok, but why do you think Vance can send more negotiators who will actually negotiate in good faith? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mirshafie@europe.pub 2 points 7 months ago (1 child) Vance, while clearly evil, is intelligent and flexible. I think that with some help he could find serious negotiators to send, and then he'd just need to make sure that there is clear communication. To be clear, I don't think he will do that, because he's also a coward, but I think it is within his ability to do so. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 7 months ago I mean it's within everyone's ability, outside someone with psychopathy, to do what the rest of society deems morally acceptable, but when they have a track record of doing what most of us find morally reprehensible, there's really no reason to expect a sudden change, until they prove they're trying, I guess. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mirshafie@europe.pub 2 points 7 months ago (1 child) Vance, while clearly evil, is intelligent and flexible. I think that with some help he could find serious negotiators to send, and then he'd just need to make sure that there is clear communication. To be clear, I don't think he will do that, because he's also a coward, but I think it is within his ability to do so. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 7 months ago I mean it's within everyone's ability, outside someone with psychopathy, to do what the rest of society deems morally acceptable, but when they have a track record of doing what most of us find morally reprehensible, there's really no reason to expect a sudden change, until they prove they're trying, I guess. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 point 7 months ago I mean it's within everyone's ability, outside someone with psychopathy, to do what the rest of society deems morally acceptable, but when they have a track record of doing what most of us find morally reprehensible, there's really no reason to expect a sudden change, until they prove they're trying, I guess. permalink fedilink source parent