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Queensland e-bike laws: New bill proposes 10km/h speed limit in push to get cyclists, scooters off footpaths and onto roads (www.brisbanetimes.com.au)
submitted 7 months ago by to c/brisbane@aussie.zone
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[–] [S] 18 points 7 months ago (12 children)

If you're from Queensland, I highly, highly recommend you write to your state MP, to Brent Mickelberg (the Minister for Transport), and to the committee themselves: SDIWC@parliament.qld.gov.au

  • You'll have to have a driver's licence to ride an escooter or ebike
  • Kids won't be allowed to ride ebikes to school (since they're under age)
  • You won't be allowed to go over 10 km/h on footpaths or shared paths. These make up over 90% of what is called "bikeways" in Brisbane, is less than a jogging pace (or even than a toddler can do on a balance bike!), and is less than the safe minimum recommended speed according to TMR
  • RBTs will be allowed for cyclists
  • ebikes will be required to conform with the EN-15194:2017+A1 standard. This was only created a couple of years ago, and the vast, vast majority of entirely safe EN-15194 ebikes do not meet it. One person went to their local bike store and found a single ebike that met this standard for sale...a child's model.

There's some good stuff in it too though.

  • Give police the power to impound and destroy non-compliant bikes
  • Power to charge parents of kids who ride illegal e-motorbikes

But mostly really, really bad. So please, contact the relevant people to let them know how terrible an idea this is.

You can find out more information about the bill and how to format a submission here: https://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/Work-of-Committees/Committees/Committee-Details?cid=272&id=8575 or by checking out Space4cyclingbne, Brisbane CBD BUG, or Brisbane West BUG on Facebook, or Bicycle Queensland (on their website or on FB).

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  • [–] [S] 10 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I'm also a bit concerned that the licence requirement and 10 km/h limit may be sacrificial clauses intended to be dumped in response to feedback and give the appearance of compromise. There is so much more in this bill that needs to be avoided, it's important to not easily let them get away with that.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    sacrificial clauses

    Very likely, great for car lobbyists (/donors) but impractical given it's uptake. Plus tough on teens for the core demographic of miserable bastards. Pleasant fodder for the greens though once LNP goes back to Siberia for the next decade (hope, please)

    Also, I don't think they we're expecting to be pilloried on the world stage as complete morons to the current level. It has gained some media presence,

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    holy trumping trump. Im not from there but I have seen similar efforts happening around me. They always fail to mention a lot of aspects and try to paint it like. Some e-bikes are like motorcycles and should be treated like them. You go and look at the specifics and its like. Wait you have crazy definitions.

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  • [–] -3 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    I'm sorry but this doesn't make sense to me and I am actually struggling to see why some of this legislation is a bad thing.

    As someone who is frequently a pedestrian, out walking/running everyday having scooters fly past like they own the joint at 40km/h is dangerous.

    Proposing to license users so they know the road rules to me makes sense to keep everyone safe. Else well have a tonne of 14 year olds with no understanding of road rules riding (unlimited) amongst cars. Also consider top speeds today will only increase tomorrow, it's likely we aren't far off these bikes getting to actual car like speeds.

    Kids can ride ebikes to school, yes, speed limited and on the footpaths.

    Yes you will be speed limited on footpaths, because it's dangerous having unlimited speed bikes and scooters hooning past mostly walking traffic, and when sharing the footpath, they'll still be traveling double what most people walk.

    I agree that there's a lot of people that ride considerately, slowing down in high ped traffic areas and only accelerating when its safe to do so. However for each of them there's 3 absolute fkwits who speed through plazas and on narrow walkways whilst pedestrians dart out of the way. Unfortunately society can only walk as fast as our slowest person, which in this case is these fkwits.

    It's the same reason we have ridiculous car speed limits in some areas, most will go 'this is a bit dangerous I should slow down a bit' whilst one idiot will accelerate to 80km/h in the wet and take out a young family.

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  • [–] [S] 10 points 7 months ago* (6 children)

    Because those scooters flying past at 40 km/h were already illegal. The police just can't be bothered enforcing it.

    The only people this new law is actually going to affect are those who are doing the right thing.

    Kids can ride ebikes to school, yes, speed limited

    Speed limited to the point that it's absolutely useless. Speeds that you can easily exceed on foot.

    And paths that are officially footpaths and shared paths make up over 90% of Brisbane's "bicycle paths". This isn't restricted to highly pedestrianised areas. It's most places people are tryijg to ride their bikes.

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  • [–] -4 points 7 months ago* (5 children)

    Correct and because they can't patrol it they are building a new way to force compliance.

    The people currently doing the wrong thing through rentals etc will now not have the ability to break the law. And a lot of the hoons I see now are on these rentals, much less are on thier own gear.

    And mate your stretching the truth there (almost as much a Murdoch media) people cannot walk at 10km/h. People typically walk at like 4 mabes 5km/h, not the 11+ km/h you are alleging.

    And I think we're just gonna have to agree to disagree here, I see your point about 90% of this is footpaths, but in my view that supports this legislation, these are FOOTpaths ie holding pedestrian traffic, the vast majority of the time your gonna encounter someone walking to the bus, or carrying some groceries home on this footpaths, strolling at a casual pace and they don't deserve to have some escooter, without notice, wipe them out.

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    people cannot walk at 10km/h

    I didn't say otherwise. I said "on foot". Reinforcing the point from my post that it is a slow jogging pace.

    90% of Brisbane's bike paths are technically not classified as bike paths, but footpaths or shared paths. That's paths like the Deagon Deviation Bikeway, significant parts of the North Brisbane Bikeway, the Cabbage Tree Creek Bikeway. These are called bikeways and are intended for use by bikes. But this shitty authoritarian pro-car law will effectively bar bikes from being ridden on bikeways.

    And for what? Because they can't be fucked actually dealing with the people riding electric motorbikes at above 25 km/h using a throttle using the laws that are already in place. It's fucking stupid. And it's indefensible. The best that could be said about it is that it's fearmongering intended to sucker idiots in to supporting their anti-bike agenda.

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  • [–] -2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

    All I'll say to this is that on foot is primarily walking.

    Will you come across some runners sure, but get out there and count them. You'll be suprised at how outnumbered they are compared to walkers.

    But you live in your little circle where you scream at the government going this is BS, because some pedestrians run these rules are wrong. Ignoring the vast vast vast majority that are walking and slow, sometimes elderly and wobble on thier feet, sometimes pushing a pram or herding little kids, let me speed past them as fast as I can.

    And regarding the bikeways, they've said there is provision to increase speed limits on some ways these will be updated and you won't have to do 10km/h on them.

    Your arguments are the exact argument that motorists that ride cyclists off the road use. You are litterally in the same camp as them, I wanna go as fast as I want and no cyclist pedestrian is gonna get in my way. Stop fearmongering and share the footpaths.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    because some pedestrians run these rules are wrong

    Read what I fucking said. What people on foot are doing is completely irrelevant. What's relevant is that 10 km/h is a fucking stupid speed limit to put on bikes. There's absolutely no justification for making cycling a completely impractical mode of transport. None.

    If people are riding dangerously on illegal motorbikes on footpaths and shared paths, then confiscate their illegal motorbikes and destroy them. There's no reason to punish people who have done nothing wrong, and while you're at it punish society as a whole by making cycling a less viable form of transport and forcing more people back into the world's least efficient form of transport: private cars.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child)

    I did read what you said I just don't agree, and you haven't raised any reasonable points to persuade me to change my mind. Your point is 10km is too slow...!!! And it's impractical!! and slow!! You raised a point that kids couldnt get to school which I demonstrated was wrong, you raised that prebuilt bike paths would all be 10km/h which I also demonstrated was wrong.

    You disregard what traffic is on these paths as 'irrelevant' when I couldn't disagree more, the traffic that's on the paths is entirely relevant and must be factored into the equation. This isn't a ecyclists come first ignore all traffic that must be on the footpaths cos only ecyclists matter.

    I still think the fact that most traffic on these paths is pedestrian, and that traffic is vastly people walking at 4km/h or less (just my assumption based on what I see), a speed limit on escooters and ebikes of more than double that on these shared pathways is reasonable.

    I note your point on people acting dangerously already can have thier assets seized, and I ask you to remember police can't patrol it as we know due to lived experience today.

    If you read my comments you would see my point of, society has to walk as fast as thier slowest person, which is that idiot that hoons through footpaths knocking over the 80yr old getting his paper in the morning. So a flat speed limit is introduced to stop this from happening. Stop hating on me, and instead hate on the idiots, who had the option to do the right thing, didn't and sped on footpaths, causing the government to introduce legislation to stop it from happening. It's those idiots that made this legislation as if they hadve done the right thing you wouldnt be facing these changes.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 7 months ago

    Your point is 10km is too slow…!!! And it’s impractical!! and slow!!

    If your goal is to get people out of cars, making cycling take 6 times as long as driving certainly isn't practical.

    It's also, as has already been stated, dangerous. 10 km/h is below the recommended minimum speed for safe cycling and it makes bikes unsteady.

    This is all ignoring one simple fact: the vast majority of the time, there are no pedestrians around. Why should an ebike have to go at an impractical, dangerously low speed, when there is literally nobody whose safety is being improved as a result? Most of our shared paths and footpaths have pedestrians only rarely, and it's very easy to slow down and safely go around them when they are there. There's no justification for it other than the real one that's behind the proposed legal change: punishing people in the "out group", namely: those not driving.

    You raised a point that kids couldnt walk to school

    See, this is how I know you're a troll. Because I didn't say that. I didn't even come close to saying that. I'm done here. You're supporting authoritarian bullshit, and you're clearly not here to engage in good faith. Fuck off and get back to your boot licking.

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