▲ 671 ▼ Tech hobbyist makes shoulder-mounted guided missile prototype with $96 in parts and a 3D printer — DIY MANPADS includes Wi-Fi guidance, ballistics calculations, optional camera for tracking (www.tomshardware.com) submitted 7 months ago by fossilesque@mander.xyz to c/technology@lemmy.world 210 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] Zozano@aussie.zone 41 points 7 months ago* (23 children) It's vibe coded lol. permalink fedilink source hideshow 23 child comments replies: [–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 7 months ago (1 child) Well, it is supposed to go boom permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 4 points 7 months ago permalink fedilink source parent [–] nandeEbisu@lemmy.world 24 points 7 months ago (11 children) There's an anecdote that comes up in software about people working on missile software not caring about memory leaks because it's going to explode anyway before that becomes an issue. Who cares about bugs in your software if it's a hobby project that's going to blow up anyway. Also, including Claude doesn't inherently mean vibe coded, it can be for writing tests, small components, or debugging. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] skibidi@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Tests should be written from requirements. Using LLMs to write tests after the code is written (probably also by LLMs) is a huge anti-pattern: The model looks at what the code is doing and writes tests that pass (or fail because they bungle the setup). What the model does not do, is understand what the code needs to do and write tests that ensure that functionality is present and correct. Tests are the thing that should get the most human investment because they anchor the project to its real-world requirements. You will have tons more confidence in your vibe coded appslop if you at least thought through the test cases and built those out first. Then, whatever the shortcomings of the AI codebase, if the tests pass you can know it is doing something right. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] nandeEbisu@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago Honestly, never been on a team that stuck to TDD. As you test your stuff, and understand whatever libraries and apis you're calling you modify your implementation as you go. For public facing methods, especially ones called by customers, having pre agreed upon tests matter more but usually that's at the integration test and system test level. I usually use AI for unit testing and read what was written. Tests end up being a lot of writing harnesses and setting up mocks that you delegate to the model and if there's gaps or incorrect requirements, you change them. I would never let the agent define the code structure. It doesn't understand business processes or what might need to be extended or we're instead about. I've been doing software for a while, I know how to review code. I don't vibe code, I let the model implement boilerplate and mapping functions while I do other stuff, like manual testing or talking with product. If done correctly, you can incorporate generative models into your workflows without fully handing over all control. permalink fedilink source parent [–] AnyOldName3@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (5 children) Using an LLM to write tests and small components is still vibe coding. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] 8oow3291d@feddit.dk 13 points 7 months ago (3 children) Wikipedia says: Vibe coding involves accepting AI-generated code without reviewing it, If you are using LLMs to write e.g. small components, then you are typically understanding the structure of the program, and reviewing it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] AnyOldName3@lemmy.world 4 points 7 months ago (2 children) There's nothing inherent to small components to suggest that you have to review them. If they're small, it's easier to tell yourself that the LLM probably got them right and you're justified in not checking. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] toad@sh.itjust.works 3 points 7 months ago Listen to me. I do code for a living. Nobody want to write HTML permalink fedilink source parent [–] nandeEbisu@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Bro, if I don't have to sit there for a half hour banging out code to map structure A on to structure B, I won't. I'll let someone else write it and spend 5 minutes to check that the code is clean and it works permalink fedilink source parent [–] nandeEbisu@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Vibe coding is you not reviewing what the model outputs. I read every line, often give feedback and tell the model about patterns I want to use. I probably write like 60-70% of the code myself. permalink fedilink source parent [+] favoredponcho@lemmy.zip -4 points 7 months ago (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Manifish_Destiny@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago No matter how mad this makes people, its still true. What makes the code actually useful in most cases however, is enough understanding of the program to modify as its needed. That's where LLMs fall flat. Even when the code works, its terrible at adjusting the code to fit a specific use case. Dont even get met started on usable documentation or maintenance. permalink fedilink source parent [–] nandeEbisu@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago I disagree about better code. Claude has been pretty bad at understanding external context and deriving why you're doing something from the implementation. This can result in wonky structure that you need to fix, or at the very least tell Claude to redo over and over untill it looks clean and organized. permalink fedilink source parent [+] fossilesque@mander.xyz [S] 4 points 7 months ago (6 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Zozano@aussie.zone 11 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (5 children) spoilerBecause Australia is Australia I'll preface this with: this is a joke. Any depictions of high profile/high net-worth individuals in my area are strictly fictional and any resemblances are merely coincidental. Anyone got some high profile/high net-worth individuals in my area? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] pastermil@sh.itjust.works 5 points 7 months ago (3 children) just go to a junkyard and get some dead cars if you just need something to blow up. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Zozano@aussie.zone 8 points 7 months ago (2 children) So do I put the CEO's inside the cars? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] pastermil@sh.itjust.works 3 points 7 months ago (1 child) if you wish so. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Zozano@aussie.zone 6 points 7 months ago Me in court next year: "I HAD PERMISSION!" permalink fedilink source parent [–] IronBird@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago lachlan murdoch lives in sydney permalink fedilink source parent [–] kieron115@startrek.website 2 points 7 months ago i'm willing to give it a pass if it lets us take down drones permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 7 months ago (1 child) Well, it is supposed to go boom permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 4 points 7 months ago permalink fedilink source parent
[–] nandeEbisu@lemmy.world 24 points 7 months ago (11 children) There's an anecdote that comes up in software about people working on missile software not caring about memory leaks because it's going to explode anyway before that becomes an issue. Who cares about bugs in your software if it's a hobby project that's going to blow up anyway. Also, including Claude doesn't inherently mean vibe coded, it can be for writing tests, small components, or debugging. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] skibidi@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Tests should be written from requirements. Using LLMs to write tests after the code is written (probably also by LLMs) is a huge anti-pattern: The model looks at what the code is doing and writes tests that pass (or fail because they bungle the setup). What the model does not do, is understand what the code needs to do and write tests that ensure that functionality is present and correct. Tests are the thing that should get the most human investment because they anchor the project to its real-world requirements. You will have tons more confidence in your vibe coded appslop if you at least thought through the test cases and built those out first. Then, whatever the shortcomings of the AI codebase, if the tests pass you can know it is doing something right. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] nandeEbisu@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago Honestly, never been on a team that stuck to TDD. As you test your stuff, and understand whatever libraries and apis you're calling you modify your implementation as you go. For public facing methods, especially ones called by customers, having pre agreed upon tests matter more but usually that's at the integration test and system test level. I usually use AI for unit testing and read what was written. Tests end up being a lot of writing harnesses and setting up mocks that you delegate to the model and if there's gaps or incorrect requirements, you change them. I would never let the agent define the code structure. It doesn't understand business processes or what might need to be extended or we're instead about. I've been doing software for a while, I know how to review code. I don't vibe code, I let the model implement boilerplate and mapping functions while I do other stuff, like manual testing or talking with product. If done correctly, you can incorporate generative models into your workflows without fully handing over all control. permalink fedilink source parent [–] AnyOldName3@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (5 children) Using an LLM to write tests and small components is still vibe coding. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] 8oow3291d@feddit.dk 13 points 7 months ago (3 children) Wikipedia says: Vibe coding involves accepting AI-generated code without reviewing it, If you are using LLMs to write e.g. small components, then you are typically understanding the structure of the program, and reviewing it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] AnyOldName3@lemmy.world 4 points 7 months ago (2 children) There's nothing inherent to small components to suggest that you have to review them. If they're small, it's easier to tell yourself that the LLM probably got them right and you're justified in not checking. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] toad@sh.itjust.works 3 points 7 months ago Listen to me. I do code for a living. Nobody want to write HTML permalink fedilink source parent [–] nandeEbisu@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Bro, if I don't have to sit there for a half hour banging out code to map structure A on to structure B, I won't. I'll let someone else write it and spend 5 minutes to check that the code is clean and it works permalink fedilink source parent [–] nandeEbisu@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Vibe coding is you not reviewing what the model outputs. I read every line, often give feedback and tell the model about patterns I want to use. I probably write like 60-70% of the code myself. permalink fedilink source parent [+] favoredponcho@lemmy.zip -4 points 7 months ago (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Manifish_Destiny@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago No matter how mad this makes people, its still true. What makes the code actually useful in most cases however, is enough understanding of the program to modify as its needed. That's where LLMs fall flat. Even when the code works, its terrible at adjusting the code to fit a specific use case. Dont even get met started on usable documentation or maintenance. permalink fedilink source parent [–] nandeEbisu@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago I disagree about better code. Claude has been pretty bad at understanding external context and deriving why you're doing something from the implementation. This can result in wonky structure that you need to fix, or at the very least tell Claude to redo over and over untill it looks clean and organized. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] skibidi@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child) Tests should be written from requirements. Using LLMs to write tests after the code is written (probably also by LLMs) is a huge anti-pattern: The model looks at what the code is doing and writes tests that pass (or fail because they bungle the setup). What the model does not do, is understand what the code needs to do and write tests that ensure that functionality is present and correct. Tests are the thing that should get the most human investment because they anchor the project to its real-world requirements. You will have tons more confidence in your vibe coded appslop if you at least thought through the test cases and built those out first. Then, whatever the shortcomings of the AI codebase, if the tests pass you can know it is doing something right. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] nandeEbisu@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago Honestly, never been on a team that stuck to TDD. As you test your stuff, and understand whatever libraries and apis you're calling you modify your implementation as you go. For public facing methods, especially ones called by customers, having pre agreed upon tests matter more but usually that's at the integration test and system test level. I usually use AI for unit testing and read what was written. Tests end up being a lot of writing harnesses and setting up mocks that you delegate to the model and if there's gaps or incorrect requirements, you change them. I would never let the agent define the code structure. It doesn't understand business processes or what might need to be extended or we're instead about. I've been doing software for a while, I know how to review code. I don't vibe code, I let the model implement boilerplate and mapping functions while I do other stuff, like manual testing or talking with product. If done correctly, you can incorporate generative models into your workflows without fully handing over all control. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] nandeEbisu@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago Honestly, never been on a team that stuck to TDD. As you test your stuff, and understand whatever libraries and apis you're calling you modify your implementation as you go. For public facing methods, especially ones called by customers, having pre agreed upon tests matter more but usually that's at the integration test and system test level. I usually use AI for unit testing and read what was written. Tests end up being a lot of writing harnesses and setting up mocks that you delegate to the model and if there's gaps or incorrect requirements, you change them. I would never let the agent define the code structure. It doesn't understand business processes or what might need to be extended or we're instead about. I've been doing software for a while, I know how to review code. I don't vibe code, I let the model implement boilerplate and mapping functions while I do other stuff, like manual testing or talking with product. If done correctly, you can incorporate generative models into your workflows without fully handing over all control. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AnyOldName3@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago (5 children) Using an LLM to write tests and small components is still vibe coding. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] 8oow3291d@feddit.dk 13 points 7 months ago (3 children) Wikipedia says: Vibe coding involves accepting AI-generated code without reviewing it, If you are using LLMs to write e.g. small components, then you are typically understanding the structure of the program, and reviewing it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] AnyOldName3@lemmy.world 4 points 7 months ago (2 children) There's nothing inherent to small components to suggest that you have to review them. If they're small, it's easier to tell yourself that the LLM probably got them right and you're justified in not checking. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] toad@sh.itjust.works 3 points 7 months ago Listen to me. I do code for a living. Nobody want to write HTML permalink fedilink source parent [–] nandeEbisu@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Bro, if I don't have to sit there for a half hour banging out code to map structure A on to structure B, I won't. I'll let someone else write it and spend 5 minutes to check that the code is clean and it works permalink fedilink source parent [–] nandeEbisu@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Vibe coding is you not reviewing what the model outputs. I read every line, often give feedback and tell the model about patterns I want to use. I probably write like 60-70% of the code myself. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 8oow3291d@feddit.dk 13 points 7 months ago (3 children) Wikipedia says: Vibe coding involves accepting AI-generated code without reviewing it, If you are using LLMs to write e.g. small components, then you are typically understanding the structure of the program, and reviewing it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] AnyOldName3@lemmy.world 4 points 7 months ago (2 children) There's nothing inherent to small components to suggest that you have to review them. If they're small, it's easier to tell yourself that the LLM probably got them right and you're justified in not checking. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] toad@sh.itjust.works 3 points 7 months ago Listen to me. I do code for a living. Nobody want to write HTML permalink fedilink source parent [–] nandeEbisu@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Bro, if I don't have to sit there for a half hour banging out code to map structure A on to structure B, I won't. I'll let someone else write it and spend 5 minutes to check that the code is clean and it works permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AnyOldName3@lemmy.world 4 points 7 months ago (2 children) There's nothing inherent to small components to suggest that you have to review them. If they're small, it's easier to tell yourself that the LLM probably got them right and you're justified in not checking. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] toad@sh.itjust.works 3 points 7 months ago Listen to me. I do code for a living. Nobody want to write HTML permalink fedilink source parent [–] nandeEbisu@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Bro, if I don't have to sit there for a half hour banging out code to map structure A on to structure B, I won't. I'll let someone else write it and spend 5 minutes to check that the code is clean and it works permalink fedilink source parent
[–] toad@sh.itjust.works 3 points 7 months ago Listen to me. I do code for a living. Nobody want to write HTML permalink fedilink source parent
[–] nandeEbisu@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Bro, if I don't have to sit there for a half hour banging out code to map structure A on to structure B, I won't. I'll let someone else write it and spend 5 minutes to check that the code is clean and it works permalink fedilink source parent
[–] nandeEbisu@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago Vibe coding is you not reviewing what the model outputs. I read every line, often give feedback and tell the model about patterns I want to use. I probably write like 60-70% of the code myself. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] favoredponcho@lemmy.zip -4 points 7 months ago (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Manifish_Destiny@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago No matter how mad this makes people, its still true. What makes the code actually useful in most cases however, is enough understanding of the program to modify as its needed. That's where LLMs fall flat. Even when the code works, its terrible at adjusting the code to fit a specific use case. Dont even get met started on usable documentation or maintenance. permalink fedilink source parent [–] nandeEbisu@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago I disagree about better code. Claude has been pretty bad at understanding external context and deriving why you're doing something from the implementation. This can result in wonky structure that you need to fix, or at the very least tell Claude to redo over and over untill it looks clean and organized. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Manifish_Destiny@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago No matter how mad this makes people, its still true. What makes the code actually useful in most cases however, is enough understanding of the program to modify as its needed. That's where LLMs fall flat. Even when the code works, its terrible at adjusting the code to fit a specific use case. Dont even get met started on usable documentation or maintenance. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] nandeEbisu@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago I disagree about better code. Claude has been pretty bad at understanding external context and deriving why you're doing something from the implementation. This can result in wonky structure that you need to fix, or at the very least tell Claude to redo over and over untill it looks clean and organized. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] fossilesque@mander.xyz [S] 4 points 7 months ago (6 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Zozano@aussie.zone 11 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (5 children) spoilerBecause Australia is Australia I'll preface this with: this is a joke. Any depictions of high profile/high net-worth individuals in my area are strictly fictional and any resemblances are merely coincidental. Anyone got some high profile/high net-worth individuals in my area? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] pastermil@sh.itjust.works 5 points 7 months ago (3 children) just go to a junkyard and get some dead cars if you just need something to blow up. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Zozano@aussie.zone 8 points 7 months ago (2 children) So do I put the CEO's inside the cars? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] pastermil@sh.itjust.works 3 points 7 months ago (1 child) if you wish so. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Zozano@aussie.zone 6 points 7 months ago Me in court next year: "I HAD PERMISSION!" permalink fedilink source parent [–] IronBird@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago lachlan murdoch lives in sydney permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Zozano@aussie.zone 11 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (5 children) spoilerBecause Australia is Australia I'll preface this with: this is a joke. Any depictions of high profile/high net-worth individuals in my area are strictly fictional and any resemblances are merely coincidental. Anyone got some high profile/high net-worth individuals in my area? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] pastermil@sh.itjust.works 5 points 7 months ago (3 children) just go to a junkyard and get some dead cars if you just need something to blow up. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Zozano@aussie.zone 8 points 7 months ago (2 children) So do I put the CEO's inside the cars? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] pastermil@sh.itjust.works 3 points 7 months ago (1 child) if you wish so. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Zozano@aussie.zone 6 points 7 months ago Me in court next year: "I HAD PERMISSION!" permalink fedilink source parent [–] IronBird@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago lachlan murdoch lives in sydney permalink fedilink source parent
[–] pastermil@sh.itjust.works 5 points 7 months ago (3 children) just go to a junkyard and get some dead cars if you just need something to blow up. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Zozano@aussie.zone 8 points 7 months ago (2 children) So do I put the CEO's inside the cars? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] pastermil@sh.itjust.works 3 points 7 months ago (1 child) if you wish so. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Zozano@aussie.zone 6 points 7 months ago Me in court next year: "I HAD PERMISSION!" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Zozano@aussie.zone 8 points 7 months ago (2 children) So do I put the CEO's inside the cars? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] pastermil@sh.itjust.works 3 points 7 months ago (1 child) if you wish so. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Zozano@aussie.zone 6 points 7 months ago Me in court next year: "I HAD PERMISSION!" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] pastermil@sh.itjust.works 3 points 7 months ago (1 child) if you wish so. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Zozano@aussie.zone 6 points 7 months ago Me in court next year: "I HAD PERMISSION!" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Zozano@aussie.zone 6 points 7 months ago Me in court next year: "I HAD PERMISSION!" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] IronBird@lemmy.world 1 point 7 months ago lachlan murdoch lives in sydney permalink fedilink source parent
[–] kieron115@startrek.website 2 points 7 months ago i'm willing to give it a pass if it lets us take down drones permalink fedilink source parent