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I can understand the Anti-IP sentiment about AI, but isn't that missing another key thing; we don't currently live in a socialist country. (lemmy.blahaj.zone)
submitted 8 months ago by to c/actualsocialism@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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[–] [S] 0 points 8 months ago* (4 children)

You know Luddites were actually not against progress right?

That was dark propaganda against them by the dominant socioeconomic class of the time.

The luddite movement was against using industrialisation to remove workers rights and to reduce safety standards which was prevalent at the time. It started as a direct response to the horrendous death of a child in a factory.

And they did actually win in the end, though as a splinter group after the original fell apart due to the bad PR.

That's why there's safety standards now, and statutory minimum of legally mandatory holidays in EU.

My argument is that genAI is being used for the exact same reason now, to erode workers rights.

Maybe you need to brush up on your history lessons?

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Luddites were an embryonic form of workers struggle against labor saving technology back in early 19th century, back when there was no theory or analysis for workers to actually know where the issues were coming from, so way before the birth of scientific socialism.

    They were mostly violently suppressed by the government, any gains that they might have had were really temporary and local (like some temporary wage increase), so

    That’s why there’s safety standards now, and statutory minimum of legally mandatory holidays in EU.

    is just you talking out of your ass, especially considering that luddites were contained within the UK, and it happening ~150 years before EU was even formed. These rights were concessions that bourgeois states gave to the working class to pacify them, since the threat of a communist revolution back when was real AND the post-WW2 superprofits allowed these kinds of rights and welfare in general.

    Now if you're gonna go "genAI technology displaces workers, erodes their bargaining power and thus their rights" then yeah no shit, that applies to every labor saving technology under capitalism. If you then hyperfocus on one piece of technology due to moral panic spearheaded by petty bourgeois slop creators who risk getting displaced, saying how it has to go and how that's gonna fix everything - you're just a reactionary that wants to turn time back, it is an impossibility.

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  • [–] [S] -3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

    Luddites were based in the UK

    It's almost like progress in one country can make progress happen in others, but no, that would be impossible!

    Especially not when that country had an empire at the time that could force vassals to follow the same rules!

    And it happened 150 years before the EU was formed

    Cool, what's that got to do with anything? You've heard of "grandfathering" right? Taking existing rules and going "y'know what, they work, will just copypaste as they are"

    I love that you keep trying to paint artists as Slop creators. You mean the thing that takes hours of dedicated practice, learning and trial and error? That thing?

    Slop creators, those who use genAI, are the ones who try to displace them.

    And again, your points all fall apart when you mention one very very very specific thing. We don't live under socialism, so to work towards it, shouldn't a goal be to ensure the Safe and Healthy lives of those who live, right now, in the real world, so they can then work towards improving it and hopefully making socialism real.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    And your points would fall apart if you actually decided to read what I wrote instead of cherry picking sections out of context. For instance:

    Especially not when that country had an empire at the time that could force vassals to follow the same rules!

    The rules in question: "They were mostly violently suppressed by the government, any gains that they might have had were really temporary and local (like some temporary wage increase)". A temporary local response to some movement where individual capitalists decide to temporarily bump up the wages to appease luddites and so they can continue exploiting workers and accumulating capital unimpeded isn't some universal rule that was applied everywhere.

    Also this entire exchange literally came about because of some off-hand remark about luddites that wasn't even important to the argument.

    Whatever, I'm disengaging.

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  • [–] [S] -1 points 8 months ago*

    Sorry for thinking that other humans deserve to live a happy life without fear of their livelihood being destroyed, that's very unlefty of me.

    I didn't know that using robots to replace people by doing a bad but cheap job was a core tenet of socialism.

    I'll have to read up on the part of the socialist theory that states "For the Robots and the Capitalist Oligarchs that own them, by the Robots and the Capitalist Oligarchy that owns them"

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