merc comments on Sacrificing realism for game balance

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 3 points 8 months ago (5 children)

To sustain full auto aim at one spot, you would actually have to keep pulling the mouse down, to basically keep fighting the recoil kick.

Yeah, that was so annoying. I'm glad they stopped doing it. I don't mind if your accuracy goes down when you go full auto, or your aim point drifts in some random direction, but having to scroll down as you shot just sucked.

Another thing that would factor especially into weilding a minigun would be basically it 'clipping' on the surrounding environment, hitting walls, door frames, nearby plants, etc.

That should even be a factor with a regular rifle. Some games simulate that, but most of them do the ultra-simple thing of pretending the gun comes directly out of your nose and never interacts with the environment in any way.

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[–] OwOarchist@pawb.social 3 points 8 months ago (3 children)

I don’t mind if your accuracy goes down when you go full auto, or your aim point drifts in some random direction, but having to scroll down as you shot just sucked.

It's not even that realistic. In real life, you need to apply constant pressure downward to keep a machine gun firing level, but not constant movement.

IMO, a realistic way to do it would be that when you fire the game machine gun in full auto, your point of aim gets shifted upward. To return it to where you attempted to aim, you'd then have to move the mouse downward slightly and then hold it there for the duration of the burst. (And the viewpoint/point of aim should suddenly dip back downward when you stop firing.)

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[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 4 points 8 months ago (1 child)

It's not even that realistic. In real life, you need to apply constant pressure downward to keep a machine gun firing level, but not constant movement.

Yeah, exactly. Pushing downwards slightly with a thumb stick / joystick might be a reasonable approximation. But, the whole thing you're trying to do is to prevent any movement.

But, I like your idea for the shifting aim point. If they ever try to do one for a mouse again, that would make more sense.

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[–] sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 8 months ago

You could do the same with a mouse by making it so if you hold the trigger down, the mouse now acts like a joy con, based from where the mouse / aimpoint was when you began to hold down the trigger.

IE, instead of mouse movements being absolute, it now acts as a mouse to joycon emulator.

Aimpoint/camera rotation is now accelerating by the amount the mouse is moved away from the 'began to hold down trigger' point, as opposed to being 1:1 movement.

With controllers, you could also do the sort of wiimote style, most controllers have spatial awareness via acceleromators these days... but that would reveal to players how weak their arms are, so it wouldn't be very popular, lol.

But, for some reason, thats completely fine and normal and accepted for VR controllers, VR FPS games.

Hell, there's the old glasses that people would get for milsims and sometimes flight sims, for games where your weapon/interaction aimpoint, and your viewpoint, are disconnected and can be moved independently.

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[–] sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 8 months ago*

You are describing what I described, the viewpunch primarily method, where the camera auto returns to nearly the original aimpoint, in a way that treats every shot after the first as... different.

What I am saying:

Each shot = view angle gets shifted upward by say 2 degrees (+/- range of 0.75) and then left/right -0.5 to 0.5, something like that.

So, for each shot, you feel the recoil and must adjust manually to return to your original point of aim.

Which is actually very realistic, if you've ever shot a gun. Thats... true for timed aimed single shots, not just full auto or bursts.

'Your' method, the viewpunch method, is basically this, but, the real recoil is 0 or much smaller for every shot after the first.

Which is kind of odd, from a realism perspective.

Typicially you have a crosshair, your 'cone of fire', that expands for each successive shot in rapid progression... that actually expands faster the more shots you fire in a given time frame, and then it usually maxes out at some max innaccuracy level.

But also typically... most games... do... what you are 'suggesting'. That's... the whole thing I am saying is basically 'easy mode'.

It makes sense for joycon users, they already need auto-aim to come anywhere near close to being able compete on par with MK users.

The fairly small number of FPS games that went cross platform and either did not have auto aim or allowed servers to turn it off showed this very quickly, you can see in RDR2 or GTAV online for more recent examples of this (assuming you can find and instance that isn't plauged with hackers...)

If you think that needing to physically account for each full auto, or rapidly repeated single/semi-auto shot... does not require actice physical effort for each shot... I don't think you've ever aimed and a shot a weapon accurately in rapid succession.

I'm one of the seemingly very small amount of people who has both shot real world firearms, and designed entire game systems that simulate firearms.

There's a fairly good chance half the advanced SWEP systems you may have ever encountered in Garry's Mod are... ultimately derivatives of my code, that I wrote almost 20 years ago now.

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[–] sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 8 months ago

Scroll down?

With a mouse wheel?

No.

I mean... pull down, like, move the mouse back, toward you, down.

I personally don't find it annoying at all, I find the near total lack of it very annoying.

Without it, being able to control recoil is no longer an actual skill that differentiates players.

I do see how this doesn't jive well with more casual shooters, and ... you can probably tell I prefer more complex and challenging gameplay, more detailed realism that serves a purpose.

But yes, modelling the gun as an element of the 3D space you are in does apply to literally any firearm.

Its why, IRL, there are different kinds of stances and aiming styles, especially so for pistols.

Yeah, most games don't model this at all, some have a system where if you get close to a wall, your gun will change anims into some kind of state to indicate you're too close, push it up against you or overhead or something.

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