▲ 23 ▼ Ladybird Browser adopts Rust (ladybird.org) submitted 8 months ago by Innerworld@lemmy.world to c/rust@programming.dev 8 comments fedilink hide all child comments Comments
[–] Czele@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago (5 children) Unbelievable permalink fedilink source hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Leny@lemmy.world 7 points 8 months ago (4 children) Why? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Czele@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago (2 children) Because as the article stated they have rejected Rust back in 2024. I can remember that clearly. Back then they gave some few reasons why Rust was not a good fit, i dont remember the details but for me it made an overall impression that they dont like Rust and wont go with it ever. So what a surprise to read that huh! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] LeFantome@programming.dev 3 points 8 months ago (1 child) Andreas did not like the Rust community. It sounds like that is still true. He also thought that Rust integrates poorly into project with a deep C++ OOP hierarchy. That is probably still true as well. It is telling that the first project was a total rewrite of the entire JavaScript engine. There is no shared hierarchy and a well defined boundary between the C++ and Rust code. That may be a sign of things to come. We may see entire modules that are either all Rust or all C++ rather than more fine grained mixing. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 3 points 8 months ago He also thought that Rust integrates poorly into project with a deep C++ OOP hierarchy. That is probably still true as well. Is there any language that can do that? As far as I know there isn't. You can use SWIG or whatever but it's just as awful as any Rust/C++ interop. There's Carbon, but that's a work in progress. IMO if you need integration with a deep C++ OOP hierarchy your options are a) give up and just use C++, or b) pain, no matter what language you target. permalink fedilink source parent [–] chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago They just abandoned the previous project of moving to Swift. There’s also the issue of trying to manage a project rewrite while the project itself is under continuing feature development. Many projects have failed at that in the past because the rewriting effort is so much of a moving target and because a team split between the sides can develop a lot of friction and conflict points. I really want them to succeed. I think it’s pretty amazing what they’ve achieved so far with Ladybird, just as a proof that it is indeed possible to write a brand new browser engine from scratch on web standards. I also think it’s extremely important that we have some mitigation against abusive behaviour by Google & Apple, however small it may be with a hobbyist browser like Ladybird. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Leny@lemmy.world 7 points 8 months ago (4 children) Why? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Czele@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago (2 children) Because as the article stated they have rejected Rust back in 2024. I can remember that clearly. Back then they gave some few reasons why Rust was not a good fit, i dont remember the details but for me it made an overall impression that they dont like Rust and wont go with it ever. So what a surprise to read that huh! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] LeFantome@programming.dev 3 points 8 months ago (1 child) Andreas did not like the Rust community. It sounds like that is still true. He also thought that Rust integrates poorly into project with a deep C++ OOP hierarchy. That is probably still true as well. It is telling that the first project was a total rewrite of the entire JavaScript engine. There is no shared hierarchy and a well defined boundary between the C++ and Rust code. That may be a sign of things to come. We may see entire modules that are either all Rust or all C++ rather than more fine grained mixing. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 3 points 8 months ago He also thought that Rust integrates poorly into project with a deep C++ OOP hierarchy. That is probably still true as well. Is there any language that can do that? As far as I know there isn't. You can use SWIG or whatever but it's just as awful as any Rust/C++ interop. There's Carbon, but that's a work in progress. IMO if you need integration with a deep C++ OOP hierarchy your options are a) give up and just use C++, or b) pain, no matter what language you target. permalink fedilink source parent [–] chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago They just abandoned the previous project of moving to Swift. There’s also the issue of trying to manage a project rewrite while the project itself is under continuing feature development. Many projects have failed at that in the past because the rewriting effort is so much of a moving target and because a team split between the sides can develop a lot of friction and conflict points. I really want them to succeed. I think it’s pretty amazing what they’ve achieved so far with Ladybird, just as a proof that it is indeed possible to write a brand new browser engine from scratch on web standards. I also think it’s extremely important that we have some mitigation against abusive behaviour by Google & Apple, however small it may be with a hobbyist browser like Ladybird. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Czele@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago (2 children) Because as the article stated they have rejected Rust back in 2024. I can remember that clearly. Back then they gave some few reasons why Rust was not a good fit, i dont remember the details but for me it made an overall impression that they dont like Rust and wont go with it ever. So what a surprise to read that huh! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] LeFantome@programming.dev 3 points 8 months ago (1 child) Andreas did not like the Rust community. It sounds like that is still true. He also thought that Rust integrates poorly into project with a deep C++ OOP hierarchy. That is probably still true as well. It is telling that the first project was a total rewrite of the entire JavaScript engine. There is no shared hierarchy and a well defined boundary between the C++ and Rust code. That may be a sign of things to come. We may see entire modules that are either all Rust or all C++ rather than more fine grained mixing. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 3 points 8 months ago He also thought that Rust integrates poorly into project with a deep C++ OOP hierarchy. That is probably still true as well. Is there any language that can do that? As far as I know there isn't. You can use SWIG or whatever but it's just as awful as any Rust/C++ interop. There's Carbon, but that's a work in progress. IMO if you need integration with a deep C++ OOP hierarchy your options are a) give up and just use C++, or b) pain, no matter what language you target. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] LeFantome@programming.dev 3 points 8 months ago (1 child) Andreas did not like the Rust community. It sounds like that is still true. He also thought that Rust integrates poorly into project with a deep C++ OOP hierarchy. That is probably still true as well. It is telling that the first project was a total rewrite of the entire JavaScript engine. There is no shared hierarchy and a well defined boundary between the C++ and Rust code. That may be a sign of things to come. We may see entire modules that are either all Rust or all C++ rather than more fine grained mixing. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 3 points 8 months ago He also thought that Rust integrates poorly into project with a deep C++ OOP hierarchy. That is probably still true as well. Is there any language that can do that? As far as I know there isn't. You can use SWIG or whatever but it's just as awful as any Rust/C++ interop. There's Carbon, but that's a work in progress. IMO if you need integration with a deep C++ OOP hierarchy your options are a) give up and just use C++, or b) pain, no matter what language you target. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 3 points 8 months ago He also thought that Rust integrates poorly into project with a deep C++ OOP hierarchy. That is probably still true as well. Is there any language that can do that? As far as I know there isn't. You can use SWIG or whatever but it's just as awful as any Rust/C++ interop. There's Carbon, but that's a work in progress. IMO if you need integration with a deep C++ OOP hierarchy your options are a) give up and just use C++, or b) pain, no matter what language you target. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago They just abandoned the previous project of moving to Swift. There’s also the issue of trying to manage a project rewrite while the project itself is under continuing feature development. Many projects have failed at that in the past because the rewriting effort is so much of a moving target and because a team split between the sides can develop a lot of friction and conflict points. I really want them to succeed. I think it’s pretty amazing what they’ve achieved so far with Ladybird, just as a proof that it is indeed possible to write a brand new browser engine from scratch on web standards. I also think it’s extremely important that we have some mitigation against abusive behaviour by Google & Apple, however small it may be with a hobbyist browser like Ladybird. permalink fedilink source parent