French President Emmanuel Macron on Saturday, February 14, urged calm and restraint after the fatal beating of a 23-year-old French youth aligned with the far-right on the sidelines of a conference by a hard-left lawmaker in the southeastern city of Lyon.

The death of the young man – identified only as Quentin – has intensified tensions between France's far-right and radical left who are both eyeing 2027 presidential elections.

He had been hospitalized in Lyon on Thursday after being attacked while providing what his supporters said was security for a protest against an appearance by hard-left MEP Rima Hassan at the Lyon branch of the Sciences Po university.

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[+] -20 points 8 months ago* (57 children)

I don't think we should be beating or killing people for their political beliefs.

Most workers on the right are angry and confused. They have bought into distractions put there by our rulers, and we should be going after the source of the problem rather than the symptoms.

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  • [–] 32 points 8 months ago (54 children)

    Their "political beliefs" are inherently violent and actively seek to oppress and cause harm to those they deem as "lesser". Don't try to downplay this with silvery words.

    It doesn't matter if they are angry and confused when they are actively creating a hostile environment for those they victimize. We first must protect our communities. So, they have two options: stop spouting their bullshit so we can ensure the safety and comfort of our community or be stopped by any means necessary. If they end up dead then they made their choice to die on the hill of supporting oppression.

    We should be going after the root cause, yes, but first we must build our communities so that we can have the foundation to do so and we cannot accomplish that while we have fascist supporters actively breaking that community down by spreading their hatred.

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  • [–] -3 points 8 months ago* (4 children)

    Your political beliefs seem just as violent and full of hate. Congrats pal, you did the full circle. Then people wonder how stalinism happened, this way ⤴️

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    No, you're thinking about the fascists. Not those who defend themselves against them.

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  • [+] -28 points 8 months ago (48 children)

    Ahh, so you're trying to stop violence with a "preemptive" strike? It's better to kill them now so they don't kill others later?

    Kind of ironic, don't you think?

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  • [–] 12 points 8 months ago (34 children)

    If you don't remove all of the cancer and rot, it will continue to fester and grow until it kills the host.

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  • [–] 20 points 8 months ago* (31 children)

    Fuck your false dichotomy bullshit.

    You can treat the symptoms while working to cure the cause. The two are not mutually exclusive. Each has merit and doing both simultaneously has compounding benefits.

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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago (18 children)

    Specifically those who disagree with my right to live. If you disagree on any other front, there's no reason for violence.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago* (16 children)
    • Literally by holding the opinion that people like myself shouldn't exist
    • Supporting people who are actively killing people like myself
    • Encouraging others to incite violence towards us
    • Supporting policy that would kill many of us
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  • [–] -4 points 8 months ago (15 children)

    Why do you think this is what they believe?

    The more specifics you can use, the better.

    Ex: Instead of saying "Literally by holding the opinion that people like myself shouldn’t exist," can you tell me what that opinion actually is? I'm not even sure what you mean by "people like yourself."

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (9 children)

    I don't know how much clearer that can be. Their opinion is that I shouldn't exist. Or that I should die. Or that we should move towards a world where people like me don't exist.

    I don't see what my identity has to do with this. Whether I'm a cis-het white male or bipoc gay trans, those opinions are equally problematic.

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  • [–] -4 points 8 months ago* (8 children)

    Their opinion is that I shouldn’t exist.

    Right here. This is where you can make it clearer. What is making you think that is their opinion? And just to clarify, by 'exist' do you mean they want you dead, or just out of sight?

    I don’t see what my identity has to do with this.

    When you say "people like yourself," how is anyone supposed to know what you're talking about?

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (7 children)

    You generally learn of people's opinions when they tell you their opinions. Not that this is relevant in this discussion. The point is that targeting people who hold such opinions is what it means to "treat the symptoms" in this context. Figuring out who holds such opinions is a different matter.

    How is my exact identity relevant? Do you think it's more acceptable to get rid of one group of people versus another? As long as they don't infringe on other people's right to live, everyone should have an equal right to live their life.

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  • [–] -2 points 8 months ago (6 children)

    Man, it's really crazy watching the mental gymnastics you're willing to play just to avoid giving a direct answer.

    You must not be too confident in your stance if you have to beat around the bush like this whenever you're asked to give details.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    I'm speaking in generalities because it's a very general stance.

    What you're doing is the equivalent of going to someone who says x+x=2x and and claiming they must not know what they're saying because they're not telling you what exact value x is.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    The thing is, you have no idea what the specific stance of the specific person was that was killed. There is almost 0 information here. And still everyone acts like it is obviously justified, because it looks right.

    That's really not how we should conduct ourselves.

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  • [–] -3 points 8 months ago* (2 children)

    "They want people like me to not exist" is not a "general stance." You're talking specifically about "people like you," which you've still yet to specify what that means. Do you mean lemmyers? People with usernames that start with H? I don't know anything about you, so giving an answer like that is meaningless without further context.

    You also chose to make this about you, then say "I'm not giving personal information" when you could've just been specific about the set of people you're referring to. I feel like you're avoiding specifics because you know it will weaken your argument.

    Don't pretend that because you're trying to conflate this with math that you're somehow correct or logical.

    I see you're incapable of giving a direct answer though, so I'm going to stop wasting my time.

    Good luck.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago*

    "They want people like me to not exist" is not a "general stance."

    No, that is not a general statement. "Someone that wants some group of people to not exist" is the general statement, and I belong to some group of people. Anything that applies to the general statement also applies to the specific one. I'm not about to list all groups of people in existence, but if you want to play the game where you name someone and I tell you whether or not the rule applies, I'm happy to play along.

    Do you mean lemmyers? People with usernames that start with H?

    Yes to all of the above, as long as they don't infringe on anyone else's right to live.

    Don't pretend that because you're trying to conflate this with math that you're somehow correct or logical.

    Logic is math. Do you disagree with the comparison?

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago*

    It’s funny how your defense and justifications for your stance constantly comes down to you arrogantly explaining how you really have absolutely no awareness of current events and what’s actively happening in the world and you completely lack the ability to apply context to anything anyone says.

    I don’t think you’re a conservative anymore, I genuinely believe you just have a legitimate and debilitating learning disability paired with an attention seeking behavior disorder. I don’t think any of this is political for you, you’re just lonely and sad, huh?

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    Have you not noticed the people getting shot in the fucking street?

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  • [–] -2 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Yes? People get shot and killed all the time for all sorts of different reasons.

    What are you trying to argue? You can be direct about it instead of trying to play leapfrog with yourself.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (2 children)

    Congrats, you play stupid real fucking stupid, stupid.

    Fuck off, I see what you’re doing. I’m done interacting with this high school debate idiocy.

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  • [–] -2 points 8 months ago* (1 child)

    Ok, just making sure you couldn't directly articulate why you think they want "people like you" to die. Maybe next time don't make the claim if you're going to run away the moment it's scrutinized.

    I’m done interacting with this high school debate idiocy.

    You wouldn't survive on a high school debate team.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (10 children)

    Oh fuck of with that disingenuous "people who disagree with you" bullshit.

    You're clearly here in bad faith.

    Fuck off, fascist sympathizer.

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  • [+] -6 points 8 months ago (9 children)

    You're clearly too far gone.

    I hope you get the help you need.

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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago (8 children)

    Hope you meet the fate those like you deserve.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (6 children)

    Eat shit and die, fascist sympathizer. Fuck your performative politeness.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago* (4 children)

    "I have annoyed this person with performative politeness and bad faith arguing in support of those who espouse inherently violent rhetoric to the point they told me to fuck off, repeatedly. Now I get to act smug because they don't maintain an arbitrary decorum."

    Gods you're a fucking child.

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  • [–] 13 points 8 months ago

    The last time fascism rose globally 70 million people died. Fascism is a cancer that needs to be cut out and destroyed or it will multiply and destroy everything and everyone in its path. It’s global cancer

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  • [–] 17 points 8 months ago*

    What a blatant interpretation of what I said.

    It isn't preemptive. It is direct, self defense against it. They start it by engaging in inherently violent rhetoric. We then tell them to stop spouting their oppressive bullshit. If they don't, they will be made to stop to defend the community against them and protect those who they are attempting to marginalize.

    If you cannot understand this simple explanation, then you cannot be helped or are clearly arguing in bad faith.

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  • [+] -6 points 8 months ago* (8 children)

    The voting and response to your reasonable comments are what disappoint me most about the Fediverse. These people aren't against violence out of principle. They're against violence directed at their people.

    There have been multiple times I've had to point out in politics and news communities the irony of people on the left literally dehumanizing their opponents. Apparently, people perceived as Nazi sympathizers don't deserve trials, because they're not even really people. We shouldn't tolerate the intolerant, but that's not not the same as not giving them due process. Even the literal Nazis got trials.

    We know what happens when ideological extremists take power. They kill off their opponents to preserve doing things the "right" way. That happens whether they started out believing in their racial superiority or believing the workers need to rise above their oppressors. Eventually, they turn their nations into totalitarian hellholes so the "bad" guys don't return to power. I guess we should just start shooting Commies and Nazis dead in the streets so that doesn't happen. Also, the "centrists" who aren't Commies or Nazis should die because they aren't sufficiently against Commies or Nazis depending on your frame or reference.

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  • [+] -6 points 8 months ago (7 children)

    Yes, I try to be forgiving and think it's mostly due to a mob mentality. Everyone wants to one-up each other to show that they're more dedicated to the cause, and eventually that leads to cheering when others are murdered for their beliefs.

    You have a good point about ideological extremists taking power. It's what happened in Nazi Germany. It's what happened in the Soviet Union. It's what's happening in North Korea.

    I wish we, collectively, could understand that this has more to do with human nature rather than what's actually being discussed. Until we reach that point, we can expect to keep making the same mistakes again and again.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago* (5 children)

    Your whole thing perceives ANY act of violence as escalating into extremism, how is that not the exact same kind of totalitarian black and white authoritarian ideology just defanged and turned on its head? Anyone doing violence of any kind is just as bad as Nazis, because you were fed some pacifist pseudo religious isolated morality bullshit tale at some point that you took as an absolute truth. That’s stupid. That is simply not how the real world works.

    Where does self defense fit into your enlightened pacifist worldview?

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  • [–] -3 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    Yeah, you don't know what your talking about and you're making assumptions that aren't true.

    Where does self defense fit into your enlightened pacifist worldview?

    This wasn't self defense, and I never proclaimed to be a pacifist. I said we should target the source rather than the symptoms.

    I think you're just angry and trying to fit in with your peers.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago* (3 children)

    I think you just enjoy jerking yourself off up there on your pedestal. Fuck you and the moral high horse you rode in on.

    We see you.

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  • [–] -2 points 8 months ago

    The amount of people praising murder on the streets of France in this thread is shocking. France is not living under the Reich, murder has no excuses and it's also incredibly self-defeating for the far-left.

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