257
food r good (quokk.au)
submitted 9 months ago by to c/mop
30 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 1 point 9 months ago (8 children)

Anarchism or communism could work in practice but they require education and good faith, which obviously capitalists oppose and try to prevent.

You explained why they can't work in practice. There are always bad actors in society. There needs to be a strong state to keep bad actors (capitalists) under control.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
    •
  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    Not at all, society just needs to learn how to hold people to account themselves. It's a new way of thinking from what the majority are used to, but it's possible.

    I've been in anarchist syndicates before and one of the major hurdles was preventing the bystander effect. Getting people to act of their own volition instead of waiting for the "adults" to step in. It's difficult, because it's new and foreign to most people, but it's certainly doable.

    Many eyes and ears, all with the authority to call out bad actors, is far better than one central authority that you must go running to and hope that they believe you, and aren't themselves bad actors.

    Want proof? Look at any large western country. All of them have vast swathes of people suffering due to bad actors, and all of them have a strong central state authority. How are the bad actors under control?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
    •
  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    Not at all, society just needs to learn how to hold people to account themselves.

    You've reinvented the state. You can't fix injustice when a local society thinks they are correct. The state used the national army to force desegregation.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
    •
  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago* (5 children)

    You should really look into the Zapatistas. They used civil justice, and were relatively stateless. Also, just because someone talks about anarchism doesn't mean they're talking about being without a process of community involved problem solving/justice. You just need to know what anarchosyndicalism is, or communitarianism, or maoism. The previous user did say "anarchism and communism" after all.

    Throughout most of human history "standing armies" and "permanent police forces" didn't exist, they were formed from the community when necessary (and often merely to beat up bad bosses or known criminals).

    So the whole idea that society pops out of existence without central command over violent forces - doesn't match up against most of human history.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (4 children)

    Throughout most of human history “standing armies”

    Countries didn't need standing armies until they came up against countries with standing armies. Rome is the best example I can think of. If your society is instantly subjugated by another country it doesn't work in practice.

    Police

    US Wild West was like that. I was called the wild west because many successfully raped and killed their way across the country without ever being caught because of uncoordinated community response. There was also slavery supported by local communities so no one local was going to change it.

    Expecting people to be generally good in the absence of enforced regulation through the state's monopoly on violence is the same claim libertarians make.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah and there definitely hasn't been any advances in communication, education, coordination, or political understanding since the days of the wild west...

    Expecting the state to be generally good through its monopoly of violence is what we're witnessing right now and have witnessed many, many times previously. And it has shown itself to not be.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago

    Coordination requires a professional policing force. Trump's Gestapo has taken over cities and despite everyone having Internet connectivity on them at all times there has been no country wide general strike.

    Expecting the state to be generally good through its monopoly of violence is what we're witnessing right now

    It's because of bad actors. Those same people are around all the time. It is bad because there are so few good people. Reducing the friction of the state apparatus only allows bad actors to be worse.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child)

    Rome wasn't defeated by "other standing armies". So no, that's nothing to do with anything..

    Also who the fuck cares about recent US history and the wild west. You sound like a dumb ass who knows very little about the scope of politics, history, and the topics being discussed.

    Don't rant as cover when you could entertain the possible truths others are telling you: Community policing was the longest form of stable communities.

    Not enforced centralized or uniformed violence.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    Rome was defeated by "other standing armies".

    Yes other countries that had or adopted a standing army defeated rome. Ad hoc armies like the Gauls were destroyed by Rome.

    Community policing was the longest form of stable communities.

    Ah yes, Libertarianism where if only those pesky regulations were removed people would be free to do good.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent