▲ 56 ▼ Minneapolis mayor: ‘I don’t support abolishing ICE’ (thehill.com) submitted 9 months ago by 14specks@lemmy.ml to c/usa@lemmy.ml 29 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[+] dhork@lemmy.world -25 points 9 months ago* (17 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source hideshow 17 child comments replies: [–] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org 18 points 9 months ago (4 children) The problem is not necessarily that we have immigration laws, or that there is an agency tasked with enforcing them. No it literally is the problem. 🏴🏴🏴 You're just noticing now because they're getting efficient and being more openly ruthless. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world -3 points 9 months ago (3 children) There is a gigantic difference between police getting a warrant, knocking on a door, and then bringing a person in for polite questioning versus masked goons breaking down doors and deporting without a trial. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] doubtingtammy@lemmy.ml 5 points 9 months ago (1 child) There is a gigantic difference between police getting a warrant, knocking on a door, and then bringing a person in for polite questioning Does this mean you will support these raids once Trump has totally cleansed the federal bench of liberals? Also, there's no such thing as "polite questioning" from police permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago How does that logic follow at all? I'm complaining about Trump's violent Gestapo and you claim that I'll soon support it more? permalink fedilink source parent [–] orc_princess@lemmy.ml 4 points 9 months ago Respectfully, the police is scary to a whole lot of us, there's no such thing as polite questioning, in the US the police has been terrorizing marginalized people since the very beginning and that hasn't changed, if you have a positive experience with the police that just means you're not the target of the policing. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Walk_blesseD@piefed.blahaj.zone 17 points 9 months ago No, actually, I think it's bad to have people tasked with rounding up foreigners. permalink fedilink source parent [–] 14specks@lemmy.ml [S] 23 points 9 months ago (4 children) You can enforce immigration and border controls without ICE. It was functioning just fine until 2003. In your attempt to find a "middle ground" position I dont think your landing pint is reasonable. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago* (3 children) Changing the name from U.S. Customs Service and the Immigration and Naturalization Service to ICE isn't any different. It was the same government workers doing the same work before and after the department merge and name change. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 14specks@lemmy.ml [S] 15 points 9 months ago (2 children) Not true, the department ment was moved under the Department of Homeland Security. This reorganization has had a demonstrable effect in how it is led. There is nothing they do that can't be dealt with by other law enforcement. The DHS itself was a ridiculous ratcheting of the surveillance/police state "in response to 9-11" (that's the excuse that was dropped in their lap). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) This reorganization has had a demonstrable effect in how it is led. The reorg meant LESS deportations. Significantly less if you factor Latin America population growth. It was only Trump that turned a regular bureaucracy into his Gestapo. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 14specks@lemmy.ml [S] 7 points 9 months ago I'm not sure whether the quantity of deportations would have to do with the reorg, or if it has more to do with overall executive policy (or other factors). Regardless I don't think there needs to be a dedicated police agency dedicated to the internal enforcement of immigration. Whatever enforcent does take place does not need to be conducted by a militarized agency (which, is my primary concern with being part of "DHS"). ICE is already have been shit for a long time, not to mention the 2018 calls for "abolish ICE" because of the "kids in cages" (which were built under the Obama admin) which was already the correct call. They don't offer anything useful, even when they don't have Trump's trillion dollar funding package. Toss them and start over, it isn't even a big deal. permalink fedilink source parent [–] doubtingtammy@lemmy.ml 7 points 9 months ago This is a very ignorant take. ICE is less than 25 years old, and is inseparable from all the post-9/11 attacks on civil liberties. The problem isn’t ICE existing, it’s what ICE has turned into under Trump and that nasty Caillou-looking Stephen Miller. This makes me want to fucking pull my hair out. Are you old enough to remember Bush? ICE was always headed in this fascist direction, including under the Obama and Biden regimes. permalink fedilink source parent [+] minorkeys@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 14specks@lemmy.ml [S] 4 points 9 months ago New organizations may be required to serve the function of border protection, immigration and customs enforcement Or even existing border patrol and CBP (and we should look at reforms to those agencies as well) permalink fedilink source parent [–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 13 points 9 months ago* Border enforcement for the past two centuries have basically just been an international apartheid agreement to control the movement of undesirables while ensuring the free flow of capital. Borders only really exist for the poor. permalink fedilink source parent [+] catscape@lemmy.ml 6 points 9 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] PanArab@lemmy.ml 5 points 9 months ago Their idea of lesser evil is evil directed at [who they perceive to be] lesser people. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org 18 points 9 months ago (4 children) The problem is not necessarily that we have immigration laws, or that there is an agency tasked with enforcing them. No it literally is the problem. 🏴🏴🏴 You're just noticing now because they're getting efficient and being more openly ruthless. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world -3 points 9 months ago (3 children) There is a gigantic difference between police getting a warrant, knocking on a door, and then bringing a person in for polite questioning versus masked goons breaking down doors and deporting without a trial. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] doubtingtammy@lemmy.ml 5 points 9 months ago (1 child) There is a gigantic difference between police getting a warrant, knocking on a door, and then bringing a person in for polite questioning Does this mean you will support these raids once Trump has totally cleansed the federal bench of liberals? Also, there's no such thing as "polite questioning" from police permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago How does that logic follow at all? I'm complaining about Trump's violent Gestapo and you claim that I'll soon support it more? permalink fedilink source parent [–] orc_princess@lemmy.ml 4 points 9 months ago Respectfully, the police is scary to a whole lot of us, there's no such thing as polite questioning, in the US the police has been terrorizing marginalized people since the very beginning and that hasn't changed, if you have a positive experience with the police that just means you're not the target of the policing. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world -3 points 9 months ago (3 children) There is a gigantic difference between police getting a warrant, knocking on a door, and then bringing a person in for polite questioning versus masked goons breaking down doors and deporting without a trial. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] doubtingtammy@lemmy.ml 5 points 9 months ago (1 child) There is a gigantic difference between police getting a warrant, knocking on a door, and then bringing a person in for polite questioning Does this mean you will support these raids once Trump has totally cleansed the federal bench of liberals? Also, there's no such thing as "polite questioning" from police permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago How does that logic follow at all? I'm complaining about Trump's violent Gestapo and you claim that I'll soon support it more? permalink fedilink source parent [–] orc_princess@lemmy.ml 4 points 9 months ago Respectfully, the police is scary to a whole lot of us, there's no such thing as polite questioning, in the US the police has been terrorizing marginalized people since the very beginning and that hasn't changed, if you have a positive experience with the police that just means you're not the target of the policing. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] doubtingtammy@lemmy.ml 5 points 9 months ago (1 child) There is a gigantic difference between police getting a warrant, knocking on a door, and then bringing a person in for polite questioning Does this mean you will support these raids once Trump has totally cleansed the federal bench of liberals? Also, there's no such thing as "polite questioning" from police permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago How does that logic follow at all? I'm complaining about Trump's violent Gestapo and you claim that I'll soon support it more? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago How does that logic follow at all? I'm complaining about Trump's violent Gestapo and you claim that I'll soon support it more? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] orc_princess@lemmy.ml 4 points 9 months ago Respectfully, the police is scary to a whole lot of us, there's no such thing as polite questioning, in the US the police has been terrorizing marginalized people since the very beginning and that hasn't changed, if you have a positive experience with the police that just means you're not the target of the policing. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Walk_blesseD@piefed.blahaj.zone 17 points 9 months ago No, actually, I think it's bad to have people tasked with rounding up foreigners. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 14specks@lemmy.ml [S] 23 points 9 months ago (4 children) You can enforce immigration and border controls without ICE. It was functioning just fine until 2003. In your attempt to find a "middle ground" position I dont think your landing pint is reasonable. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago* (3 children) Changing the name from U.S. Customs Service and the Immigration and Naturalization Service to ICE isn't any different. It was the same government workers doing the same work before and after the department merge and name change. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 14specks@lemmy.ml [S] 15 points 9 months ago (2 children) Not true, the department ment was moved under the Department of Homeland Security. This reorganization has had a demonstrable effect in how it is led. There is nothing they do that can't be dealt with by other law enforcement. The DHS itself was a ridiculous ratcheting of the surveillance/police state "in response to 9-11" (that's the excuse that was dropped in their lap). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) This reorganization has had a demonstrable effect in how it is led. The reorg meant LESS deportations. Significantly less if you factor Latin America population growth. It was only Trump that turned a regular bureaucracy into his Gestapo. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 14specks@lemmy.ml [S] 7 points 9 months ago I'm not sure whether the quantity of deportations would have to do with the reorg, or if it has more to do with overall executive policy (or other factors). Regardless I don't think there needs to be a dedicated police agency dedicated to the internal enforcement of immigration. Whatever enforcent does take place does not need to be conducted by a militarized agency (which, is my primary concern with being part of "DHS"). ICE is already have been shit for a long time, not to mention the 2018 calls for "abolish ICE" because of the "kids in cages" (which were built under the Obama admin) which was already the correct call. They don't offer anything useful, even when they don't have Trump's trillion dollar funding package. Toss them and start over, it isn't even a big deal. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world -1 points 9 months ago* (3 children) Changing the name from U.S. Customs Service and the Immigration and Naturalization Service to ICE isn't any different. It was the same government workers doing the same work before and after the department merge and name change. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] 14specks@lemmy.ml [S] 15 points 9 months ago (2 children) Not true, the department ment was moved under the Department of Homeland Security. This reorganization has had a demonstrable effect in how it is led. There is nothing they do that can't be dealt with by other law enforcement. The DHS itself was a ridiculous ratcheting of the surveillance/police state "in response to 9-11" (that's the excuse that was dropped in their lap). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) This reorganization has had a demonstrable effect in how it is led. The reorg meant LESS deportations. Significantly less if you factor Latin America population growth. It was only Trump that turned a regular bureaucracy into his Gestapo. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 14specks@lemmy.ml [S] 7 points 9 months ago I'm not sure whether the quantity of deportations would have to do with the reorg, or if it has more to do with overall executive policy (or other factors). Regardless I don't think there needs to be a dedicated police agency dedicated to the internal enforcement of immigration. Whatever enforcent does take place does not need to be conducted by a militarized agency (which, is my primary concern with being part of "DHS"). ICE is already have been shit for a long time, not to mention the 2018 calls for "abolish ICE" because of the "kids in cages" (which were built under the Obama admin) which was already the correct call. They don't offer anything useful, even when they don't have Trump's trillion dollar funding package. Toss them and start over, it isn't even a big deal. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 14specks@lemmy.ml [S] 15 points 9 months ago (2 children) Not true, the department ment was moved under the Department of Homeland Security. This reorganization has had a demonstrable effect in how it is led. There is nothing they do that can't be dealt with by other law enforcement. The DHS itself was a ridiculous ratcheting of the surveillance/police state "in response to 9-11" (that's the excuse that was dropped in their lap). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) This reorganization has had a demonstrable effect in how it is led. The reorg meant LESS deportations. Significantly less if you factor Latin America population growth. It was only Trump that turned a regular bureaucracy into his Gestapo. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 14specks@lemmy.ml [S] 7 points 9 months ago I'm not sure whether the quantity of deportations would have to do with the reorg, or if it has more to do with overall executive policy (or other factors). Regardless I don't think there needs to be a dedicated police agency dedicated to the internal enforcement of immigration. Whatever enforcent does take place does not need to be conducted by a militarized agency (which, is my primary concern with being part of "DHS"). ICE is already have been shit for a long time, not to mention the 2018 calls for "abolish ICE" because of the "kids in cages" (which were built under the Obama admin) which was already the correct call. They don't offer anything useful, even when they don't have Trump's trillion dollar funding package. Toss them and start over, it isn't even a big deal. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) This reorganization has had a demonstrable effect in how it is led. The reorg meant LESS deportations. Significantly less if you factor Latin America population growth. It was only Trump that turned a regular bureaucracy into his Gestapo. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 14specks@lemmy.ml [S] 7 points 9 months ago I'm not sure whether the quantity of deportations would have to do with the reorg, or if it has more to do with overall executive policy (or other factors). Regardless I don't think there needs to be a dedicated police agency dedicated to the internal enforcement of immigration. Whatever enforcent does take place does not need to be conducted by a militarized agency (which, is my primary concern with being part of "DHS"). ICE is already have been shit for a long time, not to mention the 2018 calls for "abolish ICE" because of the "kids in cages" (which were built under the Obama admin) which was already the correct call. They don't offer anything useful, even when they don't have Trump's trillion dollar funding package. Toss them and start over, it isn't even a big deal. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 14specks@lemmy.ml [S] 7 points 9 months ago I'm not sure whether the quantity of deportations would have to do with the reorg, or if it has more to do with overall executive policy (or other factors). Regardless I don't think there needs to be a dedicated police agency dedicated to the internal enforcement of immigration. Whatever enforcent does take place does not need to be conducted by a militarized agency (which, is my primary concern with being part of "DHS"). ICE is already have been shit for a long time, not to mention the 2018 calls for "abolish ICE" because of the "kids in cages" (which were built under the Obama admin) which was already the correct call. They don't offer anything useful, even when they don't have Trump's trillion dollar funding package. Toss them and start over, it isn't even a big deal. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] doubtingtammy@lemmy.ml 7 points 9 months ago This is a very ignorant take. ICE is less than 25 years old, and is inseparable from all the post-9/11 attacks on civil liberties. The problem isn’t ICE existing, it’s what ICE has turned into under Trump and that nasty Caillou-looking Stephen Miller. This makes me want to fucking pull my hair out. Are you old enough to remember Bush? ICE was always headed in this fascist direction, including under the Obama and Biden regimes. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] minorkeys@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] 14specks@lemmy.ml [S] 4 points 9 months ago New organizations may be required to serve the function of border protection, immigration and customs enforcement Or even existing border patrol and CBP (and we should look at reforms to those agencies as well) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 14specks@lemmy.ml [S] 4 points 9 months ago New organizations may be required to serve the function of border protection, immigration and customs enforcement Or even existing border patrol and CBP (and we should look at reforms to those agencies as well) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 13 points 9 months ago* Border enforcement for the past two centuries have basically just been an international apartheid agreement to control the movement of undesirables while ensuring the free flow of capital. Borders only really exist for the poor. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] catscape@lemmy.ml 6 points 9 months ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] PanArab@lemmy.ml 5 points 9 months ago Their idea of lesser evil is evil directed at [who they perceive to be] lesser people. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] PanArab@lemmy.ml 5 points 9 months ago Their idea of lesser evil is evil directed at [who they perceive to be] lesser people. permalink fedilink source parent