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  • [–] 77 points 9 months ago (41 children)

    The US attacking allied territory of the EU is basically the death of NATO, one way or another. WW3 is a hop and a skip from that.

    I've not been following super closely for mental health reasons, but if it is just Denmark? We are looking at another Ukraine. Everyone is going to hem and haw and say "just give it to the pricks" to "avoid World War 3". Whereas, if we start seeing other EU/NATO nations deploying troops to protect Greenland... there is a chance that SOMETHING remains and we don't just have russia running over everyone else one by one.

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  • [–] 36 points 9 months ago (15 children)

    Germany just sent a first batch of soldiers, so that's a good sign IMO.

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  • [–] 49 points 9 months ago* (14 children)

    As did Sweden, Norway and France.

    EDIT: And as a Dane, I am so grateful toward our real allies!

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago (11 children)

    And the Netherlands and Canada.... And my axe!

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (10 children)

    There's talk of sending the EU rapid reaction force. It's only 5000 troops but they're the good shit.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    No they don’t think they can repel an invasion, but they know they can make it very costly. Different bioregion, same advantage as the Vietnamese resistance, and cold is even harsher on troops and equipment than the jungle.

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  • [–] 27 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    How can anyone say Trump ISN'T beholden to Putin? Even if you know nothing of their 30 year relationship, Trump is doing everything that a puppet of Putin would do. Russia really just... won the Cold War ultimately. They did it. They have a Russian asset as POTUS, Russian asset at head of intelligence at ODNI, and many many others scattered throughout.

    All of this is straight out of "Foundations of Geopolitics" by Dugin.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    and on top of that, it's very likely that china and russia have infiltrated a lot of critical IT infrastructure after the SolarWinds debacle. Haven't heard much about the cleanup; It's like a free for all currently.

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  • [–] 17 points 9 months ago

    You don't even need to rely on adversaries to hack into the systems when you have insider threats right here in America. Musk is an enemy of the state and when he was muckin around in DOGE, exfiltrating all of our data to private servers, selling secrets to Russians, etc., after he exfiltrated data from NLRB within 30 min there were attempts with correct username and password combinations to access internal servers from Russian IP addresses. We're so fucked, and I don't think we'll get back to the same level of secrecy for at least a generation (maybe 20-30 years).

    No one is talking about it anymore because there are even more pressing issues with American citizens.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    Nailed it. Prez does not have the juice to straight pull out of nato. So this jingoistic adventurism is meant to gin enough support for it.

    I do not think they will find the support they need here though. We all like europe and canada here.

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  • [–] 19 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    Based on reports that generals are considering it a truly illegal order to attack Greenland or an ally I’m fairly certain Iran and a few South American countries are going to be sacrificed instead

    So if anyone was wondering where the line for an illegal order was it’s probably here, attacking Greenland/NATO

    That being said there is still a chance of anything happening so we obviously can never be comfortable

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago

    Honest? I don't know if politicians are adamant enough.

    However, Trump (bullies in general) only respond to strength and violence.

    Rolling over will only embolden them more. Hopefully pointing a few nukes at the US mainland will cause their government to rethink their strategy. But this will only work if we're willing to execute when push comes to shove.

    For some reason Russia causes Trump to roll out the red carpet, when Putin decides to grace Trump with a visit. This when he could easily force them to end the war in a few days. They are suffering terrible losses at the hand of a small country supported by NATO. I think it's because he perceives Russia as "strong", but in reality the only edge they have is nuclear power.

    So in short - yes, honestly I think Europe should stop trying to be diplomatic and start drawing a red line and seeing that strategy through.

    The united states' government is now so obviously an enemy to Europe that diplomacy is clearly no longer an option.

    I think as soon as Europe starts putting their big boy pants on, Canada will join. Because if the US controls both Alaska and Greenland, Canada is next. They will probably already realise that. Hopefully talks are already underway between Canada and European nations. I would be surprised if this isn't already a scenario they take into account.

    Mexico in the south, joined by a few other south American countries could also join in. As soon as the us is facing pressure from 3 sides, bringing the stakes to their physical borders, the tables might turn.

    And then there's like 80% of the us population that could rise up against this. The public opinion is heavily dependent on how close the fight is to their borders.

    I believe if Europe starts reaching out NOW to Canada and south america, stop diplomacy with the US, call them out for every Nazi shit they're pulling, and start economic, political and military pressure, we might avoid escalation.

    I really hope they already have this scenario on the back burner.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    In terms of escalation with Europe: next would be any European territory in the Caribbean / Gulf of Mexico (e.g. BVI’s; side note: no fucking way will I ever use the regime’s idiotic rename of that body of water), then any European holdings in South America (e.g. French Guiana), then straight up annexation of countries in central/South America. Then probably an attempt to sweep up any other extraterritorial European enclaves in other areas (Canary Islands? The Azores? Who knows?).

    This is what “sphere of influence” politics means. This is the new reality.

    Computer, end program.

    …

    Computer, door.

    …

    …

    Fuck.

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    I’ve not been following super closely for mental health reasons, but if it is just Denmark? We are looking at another Ukraine.

    Ukraine's armed forces alone are 15x the total population of Greenland. This is more of a Grenada than a Ukraine.

    Whereas, if we start seeing other EU/NATO nations deploying troops to protect Greenland… there is a chance that SOMETHING remains and we don’t just have russia running over everyone else one by one.

    I would be much more worried about the power projection of the world's largest military by a factor of 20 than the country currently caught in a quagmire halfway into the Donbas.

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  • [–] 16 points 9 months ago

    Ukraine's armed forces alone are 15× the total population of Greenland

    The Forsvaret (Danish Army) has the obligation to also defend autonomous territories of Denmark, i.e. Greenland and Faroe Islands. Its personnel is 100,000.

    Ukraine now has 6 times more army personnel than before the war (~2022).

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    The US could theoretically take island in days with raw force, but if a coalition Europe force holds enough territory to bring in more troops through then it's going to be a bloody brutal slog.

    All becuase roughly half of America voters preferred a pedophile war criminal over a relatively normal politician

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  • [–] 37 points 9 months ago (12 children)

    Considering NATO without USA has 5x the cold weather trained troops and 10x the cold weather equipment as USA. USA could certainly land but Denmark and its northern neighbors could pretty easily and I don't think even with great cost make it prohibitively difficult to stay. It would end up looking like Finland's Great Winter War IMO.

    If you don't live and breathe cold weather fighting, it's very easy to lose in these conditions. Your equipment gets packed with snow, the lubricant in your vehicle turns to sludge, the optics on your gun fog over, your doors freeze shut, your personnel get too cold to fight, etc.

    Even just Denmark, Finland, and Sweden could pull this off themselves, or likely just Denmark and one of those 2. The US has a long track record of losing guerrila wars and Denmark's neighbors like Finland know how to win them in conditions like what they have in Greenland.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (10 children)

    Let's not pretend it's a knowledge or ability issue. The US has operated several bases in Alaska since WW2. The knowledge is there in how to manage things.

    The real question like you said is equipment. The US gave up a lot of its manufacturing abilities, after it destroys its economy invading an ally I doubt it'll be able to build up capacity fast enough.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (9 children)

    They certainly have cold weather troops. I honestly have no idea what kind of numbers are needed for such an operation. But I know for sure that it's better to have more rather than less when push comes to shove.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    First off it's not that far from the US so they might get some fallout from that. Second, they are doing this for access to rare earth minerals which will be considerably harder to get under conditions of nuclear radiation. It may make the whole project untenable for a long time. Which is the opposite of what they want.

    So generally, even removing all the humanitarian and geopolitical ramifications, which would be enormous, I don't think it would serve their interests

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  • [–] 29 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    This is the mentality they are banking on, it's the Russian mentality since time immemorial that's kept Europe in the cuck chair for so long. "Yes but if we respond, they might escalate things!"

    Gotta tell you, as a Canadian I don't love the concept of the US having even more leverage over our already tenuous logistical connection to European allies. Keeping the Atlantic un-dominated is important for us.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Yes the US wins any individual conventional conflict for sure. But putting up a resistance force on Greenland could dissuade the US from trying, as even military win may prove to be a loss, especially if the rest of NATO can take some Americans with them when Greenland falls.

    Simply pulling out of Greenland is a non-option, even if the US would win the battle for Greenland.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    There is no realistic way to defend Greenland with actual arms against America.

    Spoken like someone who hasn't studied any US military history more recent than the 1940's.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    It's crazy how many people insist the US is this unbeatable force that has already doomed everyone and I invincible.

    Bro the gigant has feet made of mud.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

    Would you rather have 'peace in for our time'?

    Edit: Fixed the quote.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago

    Peace for our time" was a declaration made by British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain in his 30 September 1938 remarks in London concerning the Munich Agreement and the subsequent Anglo-German Declaration.[1] The phrase echoed Benjamin Disraeli, who, upon returning from the Congress of Berlin in 1878, had stated, "Lord Salisbury and myself have brought you back peace — but a peace I hope with honour." The phrase is primarily remembered for its bitter ironic value since less than a year after the agreement, Germany's invasion of Poland began World War II.

    The Danish Foreign minister mentioned Chamberlain 3-4 times today after the meeting at the white house, clearly stating that he was not that and he could not promise peace

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    In a direct confrontation, the US would walk over them as if they aren't there. That's why you don't do that, you apply guerilla tactics. That's why a bunch of basically goat herders in Afghanistan, of all places, managed to beat the Russians and the Americans.

    Let there be no doubt, the US got its ass handed there, and Afghanistan is a good part of the reasons why the USSR folded.

    I assume the Danish generals know this and likely have prepared something similar, but now with highly trained and well equipped soldiers.

    I think an invasion of Greenland would finish the US, especially since the Danes have a lot of experience in how to fight winter conditions while the US not so much.

    I think something similar applies as well in, for example, Mexico. There are boat loads of highly (US military) trained criminals over there with a lot of experience in sending messages. Once the hundredth soldier was found dangling from a bridge, or cut up in a salad, it might become hard to explain to Maga base why really is worth it.

    The US is awesome at invading. It absolutely sucks at keeping anything

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    In your average conflict this might very much be true, but this is the artic, its a completely different scenario. Ive been hearing a few military experts talk about how much complicated are simple things like keeping ur vehicles moving because of the low temps and how hard would be the logistic to simply maintain control on the ground.

    EU will never beat the US air superiority, but alas. Invading Greenland is the end of NATO and most likely will trigger WW3

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