Dull Men&#39;s Club

hideshow 8 child comments

parent

[–] sem@piefed.blahaj.zone 3 points 10 months ago (7 children)

https://www.rd.com/article/is-coffee-a-diuretic/

A lot hinges on the definition of diuretic. Does it mean, "makes you pee more often/more volume?" (In which case water is a diuretic) or does it mean it dehydrates you? (In which case water is not a diuretic).

That is my understanding of it anyway.

hideshow 7 child comments

parent

[–] spankinspinach@sh.itjust.works 2 points 10 months ago (6 children)

Oooh I love readers digest.

I agree it is based on the definition, and honestly it sounds like we might be arguing two sides of a similar point: I'm focused on the drug action (caffeine as a diuretic), you're focused on the actual beverage (coffee as a hydration drink).

Thanks for the great discussion :)

hideshow 6 child comments

parent

[–] sem@piefed.blahaj.zone 1 point 10 months ago (5 children)

I don't agree with your characterization of the discussion. My understanding was that caffeine the drug irritates the badder and causes you to pee, but doesn't actually dehydrate you.

hideshow 5 child comments

parent

[–] spankinspinach@sh.itjust.works 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (4 children)

That's fair, I'm sorry if I put words in your mouth.

If I'm understanding you, you're focusing on how it's affecting you to increase urination, right? I know nothing about bladder irritation - you could be right, for sure.

My only contention with increased pee volumes is that if you're peeing, you're losing water, so if caffeine is increasing urination, it's dehydrating you, regardless of how it's coming about, no? Is there a part of your point I'm not getting?

Where I'm sitting: caffeine as a drug is a diuretic and causes dehydration in high enough volumes, but caffeine does not appear in strong enough concentrations in drip coffee to cause dehydration. So, coffee is a hydrating drink, but because water outweighs the dehydration impact of the caffeine, rather than caffeine is not a diuretic.

hideshow 4 child comments

parent

[–] sem@piefed.blahaj.zone 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

As I understand it, your bladder collects urine, which is water and waste products. Your body, your kidneys, etc, are always trying to maintain a Goldilocks level of hydration. If you drink a lot of water, your body removes the water from your bloodstream and puts it in the bladder so you can pee it out. That way you don't get overhydrated. If you're underhydrating, you will still have to pee eventually to void the water soluble waste products in urine, like uric acid. And if you don't replenish this you'll get dehydrated.

As I understand it, alcohol dehydrates you -- it removes water from your bloodstream and into your bladder, which gets full and causes you to pee. Your electrolytes get more concentrated, and your muscles are less effective. Your body doesn't have the water it needs to properly function unless you drink more water.

Caffeine on the other hand does not dehydrate you this way. What it does is irritate your bladder, causing you to void whatever was in there before you would otherwise need to, but not affecting your electrolyte balance in your blood.

So while both are "diuretics" in the sense that they make you pee, only one is dehydrating you, and is a "diuretic" in that sense.

hideshow 3 child comments

parent

[–] spankinspinach@sh.itjust.works 2 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Thanks for clarifying, I see what you mean. Could this not be considered a question of drug action then, how it impacts your body? Since all of them will go through your bloodstream, one impacts your hydration levels pre-bladder, one post-bladder - assuming you're correct about the bladder irritation. I'd be interested to find out more about this irritation.

I think caffeine impacts your bloodstream more than this discussion indicates, as it is absorbed into the blood before it can be filtered by the kidneys, transmitted to the bladder, then increasing urination. I assume that increased urination, regardless of pre- or post-bladder, will result in similar effects as alcohol, the difference being the magnitude of the impact (alcohol being the more potent drug, results in more dehydration). Any loss of water should result in higher concentration of solutes, no?

With the information we have, I think we disagree on how to apply the definition of diuretic and how caffeine works, but we're also getting into more complex levels of biology and drug action. I'm sure we could get into very complex chemistry if we wanted haha

hideshow 2 child comments

parent

[–] sem@piefed.blahaj.zone 1 point 10 months ago (1 child)

Any loss of water should result in higher

concentration of solutes, no?

I don't think this is completely true. Caffeine may cause you to empty your bladder, but your body continues to function normally, and will keep blood concentration of electrolytes at homeostasis.

Compare this to alcohol which removes water from the bloodstream, which increases concentration of solutes in the blood.

parent

hideshow 1 child comment

[–] spankinspinach@sh.itjust.works 2 points 10 months ago

That's fair. I'd be curious to know more, but don't know enough to argue it. I'll let you know if I get around to investigating further haha

Anyway, I want to thank you for an intriguing and entertaining conversation. It's nice having a good long discussion with someone with diverging viewpoints. All the best in this new year :)