Wojack one: "under capitialisim if you can do it better make your own and sell it, the market will decide whose is best". Wojack two: "I made a better product for half the price". Wojack one: "NO thats patent violation"
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[–] 39 points 1 year ago (80 children)

Someone gets it.

Lets instead do this:

Every citizen, irrespective of their nationality, skincolor, gender has the right to:

  • living quarters
  • work
  • maximum of 7 hours of work
  • free healthcare
  • paid vacation
  • equal pay and treatment for women
  • freedom of religion and speech

This is directly taken from a 1936 constitution. Today one could improve on it but we're so much worse, everywhere.

Now guess which one.

Go check if you dare

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (5 children)

    Even if i dont check and just believe what you wrote, it still beats the shit out of the situation a ton of us are in right now (also that was literally 34+ yrs ago. Life was different then AND the country was recovering from tons of shit). Not to speak of the countries that make our ill gotten comfort possible too. And just to clarify, present day russia is not communist or socialist. they're as capitalist as the western states are. They are no better and no worse in terms of inequality.

    The important part, will you have a respectful discussion or do I have to block you?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    And thats what I meant.

    Respect means you acknowledge my arguments. Just backing off on the insults a bit (but not fully) isnt cutting it. Respectful discussion is addressing people's arguments as well as not insulting them or their intelligence.

    I will definitely take the time and check things that are brought forward. Saying "just because shit was bad back then means exactly that, not that the system it was in was shit." isnt the same as sticking fingers in ones ears and singing lalala. Doing as if that were the case is just abusive rhetoric.

    Because shit is horrendous today as well: Fentanyl hordes, people freezing to death on the streets, protesters shot, people deported to concentration camps, genocide, media spewing propaganda, most of the population living paycheck to paycheck, guantanamo. Most of the examples are US but the EU is only marginally different and catching up fast.

    There is no such thing as a perfect system. Gulags alone are no sole cause for dismissal same as guantanamo is.

    Here's a video about the reason why people hate socialism so much https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mhYS59egWQc

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  • [–] 33 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (23 children)

    Uh... This is coming from the folks who said "he who does not work, neither shall he eat" during a famine so... uh... yeah, that's not the flex you think it is.

    Edit: And in case anyone is wondering, this gets worse with context.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    As opposed to the current time of surplus and abundance where it is if "you don't work you don't eat". Which is morally a lot worse considering there is more than enough food to feed everyone

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (7 children)

    Yeah... no. Very little in modern history is morally worse than Soviet management of the famine of 1930-1933 (which they caused, too). That shit was at least on par with the Irish Famine in terms of sheer moral depravity.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Let me get this straight. To you, a famine produced unintentionally through policy that spiked class war and originated primarily from rich farmers sabotaging the crops and livestock as a response to their lands being collectivized in the first successful collectivization of a country in the history of the Earth, is to you as morally depraved as the English colonists literally starving Irish to death because of colonial and racist beliefs?

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    I don't know choosing to not feed people when there is enough food to feed everyone seems a lot worse than choosing which people to not feed during a time of famine.

    Obviously more people die from the famine, but at least that's due to a lack of resources and not a manufactured scarcity

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I can't find a way to phrase this that's not offensive, so I'll just go ahead: Are you being obtuse or do you just not know what you're talking about? Because if it's the latter you should at least take a scroll down this Wikipedia page before you talk about this stuff. However, I will say that sacrificing millions of people for holy communism (which is what happened; the famine was a choice) isn't much better than sacrificing them for holy property rights. Not asking for foreign aid and denying a famine even existed was also inexcusable.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago*

    They also created the famine by decentralizing agriculture and planning, but at least that sort of people learned their lesson from it and didn't repeat the exact same blunder in China years later, right?

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

    And this was said about able-bodied parasites such as owners of the means of production, shareholders, landlords, and others living off society on non-labor income.

    And Ukrainians, don't forget Ukrainians. I know enough about early Soviet history to know that Stalin was a cold-blooded murderer. Not that the rest of the Communist Party was full of upstanding global citizens, but Stalin was particularly egregious.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Surely anyone who dares criticize the great Soviets is a straight up Nazi! There can be no other explanation!

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    I don't think that's what they're saying. There are countless pieces of Nazi propaganda that were taken as fact at some point in the intervening 80 years. Famously, the number of people killed in the Dresden bombing was hugely inflated by the Nazis to smear the Allies, and those numbers were accepted for a very long time.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    I thought it was the nazis who said that, so I checked it with FuckDuckGo assist:

    This phrase, "He who does not work, neither shall he eat," originates from the New Testament, specifically 2 Thessalonians 3:10,

    Also love that people try to make it morally acceptable because of reasons.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Luckily, the Soviet union treated homosexuals to a similar standard. /s

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago*

    Couldn't we just add equality for sexual orientation and gender expression to a new list of rights, along with the things already mentioned?

    OP even said, "Today one could improve on it," implying that the referenced constitution isn't meant to be a comprehensive list for the modern day.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    The Soviet Union didn't particularly treat homosexuals any worse than most countries at the time. Sure, it should have done better, but there are limitations to ideology when lessentially your entire ideological base members die in the struggle against the Nazis due to being the first to volunteer.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    After the October Revolution of 1917, homosexuality was decriminalised in Soviet Russia with the repeal of the legal code of the Russian Empire, and this decriminalisation was confirmed with new criminal codes in 1922 and 1926. Under Joseph Stalin, the Soviet government reversed course in the late 1920s and promoted harsher policy against LGBTQ rights. In 1933, homosexuality was recriminalised in the Soviet Union, and Article 121, which prohibited male homosexuality, was added to the Soviet penal code in the following year.

    You don't get to blame this on the Nazis.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    If you had actually read anything on the "decriminalization" of homosexuality in Soviet Russia after 1917, you'd know that there was not really any social movement on the side of legalizing homosexuality. The fact that its criminalization was repealed is mostly due to Bolsheviks wanting to repeal essentially all Russian Imperial law.

    Homosexuality wasn't even well-understood at the time, they conflated gender and sexuality, which is why only male homosexuality was criminalized. The Soviet Union, due to it being heir to a very patriarchal society, wanted "stronger men and workers", and lesbians were seen as a more masculine version of men (which was accepted) whereas gays were seen as "feminized men", which was seen negatively.

    Even then, my point is that after the 40s most of the theorists of socialism were fucking killed at the hands of Nazis, and that's one of the biggest reasons why social policy didn't develop sufficiently in the Soviet Union. But even so, the criminalization of homosexuality for the most part wasn't particularly prosecuted compared to many countries, there's a difference between something being illegal and something being prosecuted.

    All in all: yes, they should have done better, but the material conditions of the moment didn't really allow for much better.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (37 children)

    Stalin 1936 constitution. Holidays for "enemies of the people" were unpaid and in a quite cold climate of Siberia. They also cared about fitness of citizens by ensuring no one has too much of food. And if you didn't like it, you get a free ride in a black car to the place of final rest.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    My former boss was in a gulag for most of his teens. He was not paid and to this day he has no idea what crime he was convicted of. He just knows he served time and was targeted by guards because he was Jewish and the Soviets were very bigoted.

    Maybe take a second to ask yourself what your real life experience is with the USSR.

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  • My degree is in the downfall if the USSR. I have spent a lot of time reading accounts of prisoners. Many never knew because they were not present at their trial.

    He has the numbers tattooed on his arm. I know people who knew him in Belarus that I knew separate of him who talked about it.

    There were prominent Jews in the politburo. There was also a fuckload of antisemitism as anyone who lived in the USSR could tell you. The USSR was just as racist as every other European nation.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Surely people going to jail for the wrong reason is something exclusive to the Soviet Union and not to all countries with a legal system?

    It isn't common for people to be sent to slave camps as a punishment for years without knowing why they were charged. That’sthe kind of evil unique to totalitarian shitholes like the USSR.

    Your boss may have spent his teens in a gulag, but the fact that he lived to tell you that is because the Soviets managed to miraculously defeat the Nazis and prevent them from genociding the Slavic peoples they categorised as “Untermenschen” according to the infamous “Generalplan Ost”, which implied genocide of almost all people between Germany and the Urals. If it wasn’t for the Soviets, your former boss would have been murdered in a concentration camp by the nazis.

    The same nation you are praising put him IN a concentration camp for no fucking reason other than potentially because of his race.

    Like, damn, I feel sorry for your boss, but in dire circumstances such as those of the late 30s / early 40s in the USSR, excesses and abuses were sadly made because of the overwhelming conditions.

    No, you don’t. You wouldn’t be supporting their evil actions in this case if you had any empathy.

    You are making a lot of apologies for overt racism, why are you doing this and why do you think the USSR’s racism should be praised?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    I am not talking about WWII at all because it is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. WWII was over for years by the time he was imprisoned for no apparent reason without a trial he attended.

    You are bringing up WWII because there is no moral ground for you to support and justify the USSR’s evil actions otherwise so you keep hamming your irrelevant claim because otherwise you’ll have to accept the USSR wasn’t a good moral nation bit was really quite racist, evil and oppressive (all of which are true).

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    It’s crazy to tell me that the only nation that helped the fight against fascism in my homeland was “evil and oppressive”

    No, it is entirely accurate. They did some good and a LOT of evil. Totalitarian states tend to be evil. They were no exception.

    Your grandpa, a Jewish man, would have been murdered if it weren’t for the Soviets.

    No my FORMER BOSS was in a gulag again without a trial which you seem to be avoiding discussion of.

    My grandfathers fought the Nazis in Europe and Japanese in the Pacific. A great uncle fought in Spain and in Germany against fascists both times. MY ancestral history empowers me to fight the evils of totalitarianism, why doesn’t yours?

    The very fact that you’re here is because of the 27 million lives that the Soviet Union sacrificed in order to save Europe from Nazism.

    Obviously this is not true at all.

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  • So all your family fought on the side of socialism against fascism and now you spit on their tomb by saying “socialism is just as bad”?

    My family fought against totalitarian systems not “for socialism”. The USSR wasn’t socialist and it never planned on becoming that after the communists lost the first election.

    My family fought fascists and authoritarians. You back authoritarians who oppress the people. Do you see the difference?

    Why do you think your whataboutism will work this time?

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Are you a little bit slow?

    did pay inmates a wage while they worked

    In a form of a piece of lead in their heads, no doubt.

    Really? The Gulags were all in Siberia?

    Where did I say ALL gulags were in Siberia, sweetie?

    The diet of the Soviet citizen was by the 60s

    Stalin was alive in 60s? News to me.

    Another tankie. 🙄

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    You could literally open up a book someday

    That's what you should start with.

    check your info, gulag inmates were paid.

    Check, you i.. Tankie. Or just check another response to your moronic post.

    cliche of "forced labor to the cold Siberia

    Listen, you moron: millions of people died in Siberia, murdered by your beloved Stalin. Denying this is like denying holocaust. Go and fuck yourself you genocide denier.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    And there it is again. Dont you ever wonder why they had a constitution like this but treated their people like this. Do you have a window in your room? Can you check what happens to enemies of the state where you live? What happens again if you become disabled in our "civilized" societies?

    have you ever wondered if you're being fed bullshit?

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    Dont you ever wonder why they had a constitution like this but treated their people like this. Do you have a window in your room?

    "Tankie's thoughts", page 423.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    What you're doing is called a "thought stopper" or "conversation stopper". It is used in propaganda for hundreds of years.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    thought stopper

    I am pretty sure that would be a permanent condition you are suffering from.

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