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[–] 83 points 1 year ago (21 children)

We should've gotten a 4-day work week decades ago. Now it should be a 3-day work week at most and I'm being generous. The capitalists are always screeching about the low birth rate, but if people were working 3 days a week and making a decent living off that time, it would help the birth rate because then a household with two working parents could be scheduled on different days and alternate staying home with the child, plus have a shared day off every week.

Anyway, that's just a selling point to make to the capitalists. Whether or not it helps with the birth rate doesn't matter as much as the fact that we're owed shorter work weeks thanks to all the blood, sweat, and tears that labor has put into making the world as wealthy as it is now. What's the point of all this work if not to improve our standard of living? Technology making our lives better is hitting diminishing returns and now it's often not making our lives better or it's even making our lives worse.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (16 children)

    The argument for a 4 day work week is that studies have shown it maintains the same level of productivity as a 5 day workweek, but it makes people happier, so it doesn't slow down the economy, but actually improves it. What's the argument for a 3 day work week?

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  • [–] 35 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Because people deserve more time to be people. Not everything has to serve the Holy Economy.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Sure, I agree with that. However, we also need to consider what a "net decrease in productivity" actually means for the population as a whole, and whether it's something we want to accept as a trade-off for more free time. Briefly, we can collectively choose to work four, three, or even two days a week, despite seeing a decrease in overall productivity. However, a decrease in productivity means that stuff like clothes, transport, food, IT services, and pretty much everything you can think of that someone has to produce becomes more scarce.

    You basically need to answer the question of "would you prefer two days off per week with current access to goods and services, or have more days off with reduced access to goods and services". Of course, there may come along technological innovations that change this in some ways, and there are studies showing that a lot of people can be sufficiently productive on a four-day work week. On a society level, I still think the point stands as an overall tradeoff we need to consider when talking about whether we should reduce the work-week.

    My point is that it's not just a "capitalists are bad, and we're owed more free time" thing. If we produce less, then goods and services become scarcer for everyone. I would say the distribution of wealth in society, and how it's shifted the past 20-50 years is more concerning than the fact that we're working the same hours as we were 20-50 years ago.

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  • Sure, I agree with that. However, we also need to consider what a “net decrease in productivity” actually means for the population as a whole, and whether it’s something we want to accept as a trade-off for more free time.

    Skill issue. You know turns exist, right? Just hire two turns of people who work 3 days a week, and bam! You cover 6 weeks of work. Heck, you are hiring more people so you are creating more employment!

    And that's all even before machines and AI completely replace the need for that work, anyway.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Briefly, we can collectively choose to work four, three, or even two days a week, despite seeing a decrease in overall productivity.

    Or we can collectively choose to never shorten the work week while productivity continues to outpace wages forever. Which is what republicans and centrist democrats both want.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    You seem to agree with my last point, which was that

    the distribution of wealth in society, and how it’s shifted the past 20-50 years is more concerning

    That is: The major problem we have today is that the increase in production we've seen the past 20-50 years has primarily benefited the wealthy. This needs to change. Once we have decent wealth distribution, we can make an informed decision on whether we want to reduce our total productivity in order to have more free time.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Once we have decent wealth distribution, we can make an informed decision on whether we want to reduce our total productivity in order to have more free time.

    And since that will have its own set of prerequisites that centrists will work with republicans to block, we'll keep on as we are, with productivity outpacing wages forever.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    My reading of their argument is that when the 5 day a week, 40 hour work week began there was a specific level of productivity. As technology increased the output increased. If we believe that recent increases make it so that we only need to work 4 days to maintain our current output, we should be owed 3 days because by the same logic long ago we should've dropped to 4.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    when the 5 day a week, 40 hour work week began there was a specific level of productivity. As technology increased the output increased.

    Exactly, so following this argument, we can choose between living at our current (increased) productivity level (40 hour weeks), or trading off the technological advancements for more spare time at the cost of going back to the productivity level we had previously.

    I won't argue for which of these two is "correct", I think the tradeoff between free time vs. more access to goods and services is considered very differently by different people. However, I do think that a major problem we're facing today is that the increased productivity we've had the past 50 years due to technological advances has benefited the wealthy far too much, at the expense of everyone else.

    I think it's more fruitful to first try to take care of the wealth distribution, such that we can actually see the quality of life our current productivity level can give everyone. Then we can make an informed choice regarding whether we want to reduce the productivity in exchange for more free time.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    I would assume that there's a balance to this. At some point the reduction of hours will result in a loss in productivity. You can do 5 days of work in 4 days if you're better rested and more focused, but this might be less true in 3 days. I mean if studies show that there's isn't a dip productivity and that it improves well being, then sure, that would be great but I think it's likely than a 4 day work week.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    I think the argument would be that the productivity gains that have happened since the 5 day work week was implemented means that if we want that same level of productivity then a 3 day work week would get that. It would be less productive then currently but the argument would be that a lot of that productivity is just going towards the profits of the companies through having to hire less people. Instead if you wanted to maintain current productivity with a 3 day work week you'd have to hire more people which is good with the amount of wealth transfer and inequality that's been happening.

    Edit: not to mention how bad the job market has been recently as well.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I would argue that having more hired staff on rotation would be more productive, even with fewer workdays by any one person. By having more people who have experience with a given task, should any one of them become unable to work, someone else can pick up the slack until things have returned to normal.

    When a company relies on linchpin personnel, the loss of a person could be devastating, since the company will have to find a capable replacement to hire. That means interviews, introductory payment packages, hoping that delays don't cause further damage, establishing the new hire in the workplace, and so on.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    100% agree but companies are of course against it because hiring people is expensive. Since if you have two people working 3 day work weeks they'll still need to be paid the same amount as working 5 days since they still need to make enough to make a living. It also gives benefits to people working since it means you can go on vacation without a bunch of work piling up since you're the only person who can do it.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    We as a species could have built a leisure society decades ago. The raw energy input of fossil fuels could have been wisely parceled out by a council of benevolent dictators, while we live under the domes and chase Jessica 7 on a monorail.

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