▲ 117 ▼ The Promised Land (lemmy.ml) submitted 1 year ago by yogthos@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml 45 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[+] bokster@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 1 year ago (7 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] Tiger666@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago Poland certainly shouldn't be involved in this. permalink fedilink source parent [–] edel@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (4 children) That is what many "anti-colonial" gets wrong... they see it as a "white" vs "colored"; it is power against powerless. A carpenter in Slovenia does not have anything to do with colonialism in Africa, Americas or Asia, neither does a farmer in Salisbury or a fisherman in Bilbao... but their white vs colored argument is gold for the architects of colonialism since it shovels that carpenter, farmer and fisherman toward the powers be just for the skin color. Let us remember that groups of people, before embarking in colonialism, did not have any problem abusing and killing the neighbor. Racial distinction only became far more prominent in recent history. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] yogthos@lemmy.ml [S] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children) The living standard of a carpenter in Slovenia is directly built on the brutal exploitation of the Global South. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] edel@lemmy.ml 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) That would be nice to debate, but I hardly see how that is possible. I see you posted that the EU does colonialism in Africa... The EU per se, only finances some NGOs that may have some hidden agenda but hardly substantial in those countries. The other EU's domain is to assign free trade agreements with the poorest countries, but I don't think it is conditional and hard to see as malicious. Now, the EU is clearly now exercising power well beyond its mandate and, what it is worse, for evil... Gosh, it is now even blatantly violitig it is own laws. What I do see exercising colonialism is by some member states, usually correlated with its own GDP and that they now shield themselves behind the EU flag. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago* (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] edel@lemmy.ml 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) I hear you Cowbee! I’ll be be reading that wiki page latter on today. But again, the regular European carpenter does not benefit from an “exploited” cheaper iron ore in the form of cheaper nails... Not even from cheaper wood, if anything, people will appreciate more wood and hire more carpenters to fix wood cabinets rather than dispose after being worn out... It is a complicated economy...Companies like Ikea do indeed benefit from exploitation, but not the Slovenian carpenter with a market with cheaper wood and cheaper nails. Now, you could go with that Ikea does benefit, so that those companies pay taxes that the carpenter will ultimately benefit from... I could see that, but, again, we know that these large corporation do not pay their fair taxes, let alone, compensate for the negative externalities they create, so i do see no net benefit to the average EU citizen on the exploitation their countries participate on. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] edel@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago I have to disagree here. The carpenter would ultimately had a similar quality of life with empire or without... Life in the west would be very different for sure, but i would not qualify it as worse. Consumerism would be replaced by a far more sustainable lifestyle and we would have replaced our incentives based on GDP long ago, but does not mean less quality of life, just a more just one. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) [–] yogthos@lemmy.ml [S] 5 points 1 year ago Funnily enough the economies of all these countries are built on colonial exploitation of the Global South. All of them rely on cheap production in countries dominated by the west. Their economies are not self sufficient. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Tiger666@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago Poland certainly shouldn't be involved in this. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] edel@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (4 children) That is what many "anti-colonial" gets wrong... they see it as a "white" vs "colored"; it is power against powerless. A carpenter in Slovenia does not have anything to do with colonialism in Africa, Americas or Asia, neither does a farmer in Salisbury or a fisherman in Bilbao... but their white vs colored argument is gold for the architects of colonialism since it shovels that carpenter, farmer and fisherman toward the powers be just for the skin color. Let us remember that groups of people, before embarking in colonialism, did not have any problem abusing and killing the neighbor. Racial distinction only became far more prominent in recent history. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] yogthos@lemmy.ml [S] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children) The living standard of a carpenter in Slovenia is directly built on the brutal exploitation of the Global South. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] edel@lemmy.ml 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) That would be nice to debate, but I hardly see how that is possible. I see you posted that the EU does colonialism in Africa... The EU per se, only finances some NGOs that may have some hidden agenda but hardly substantial in those countries. The other EU's domain is to assign free trade agreements with the poorest countries, but I don't think it is conditional and hard to see as malicious. Now, the EU is clearly now exercising power well beyond its mandate and, what it is worse, for evil... Gosh, it is now even blatantly violitig it is own laws. What I do see exercising colonialism is by some member states, usually correlated with its own GDP and that they now shield themselves behind the EU flag. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago* (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] edel@lemmy.ml 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) I hear you Cowbee! I’ll be be reading that wiki page latter on today. But again, the regular European carpenter does not benefit from an “exploited” cheaper iron ore in the form of cheaper nails... Not even from cheaper wood, if anything, people will appreciate more wood and hire more carpenters to fix wood cabinets rather than dispose after being worn out... It is a complicated economy...Companies like Ikea do indeed benefit from exploitation, but not the Slovenian carpenter with a market with cheaper wood and cheaper nails. Now, you could go with that Ikea does benefit, so that those companies pay taxes that the carpenter will ultimately benefit from... I could see that, but, again, we know that these large corporation do not pay their fair taxes, let alone, compensate for the negative externalities they create, so i do see no net benefit to the average EU citizen on the exploitation their countries participate on. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] edel@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago I have to disagree here. The carpenter would ultimately had a similar quality of life with empire or without... Life in the west would be very different for sure, but i would not qualify it as worse. Consumerism would be replaced by a far more sustainable lifestyle and we would have replaced our incentives based on GDP long ago, but does not mean less quality of life, just a more just one. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml [S] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children) The living standard of a carpenter in Slovenia is directly built on the brutal exploitation of the Global South. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] edel@lemmy.ml 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) That would be nice to debate, but I hardly see how that is possible. I see you posted that the EU does colonialism in Africa... The EU per se, only finances some NGOs that may have some hidden agenda but hardly substantial in those countries. The other EU's domain is to assign free trade agreements with the poorest countries, but I don't think it is conditional and hard to see as malicious. Now, the EU is clearly now exercising power well beyond its mandate and, what it is worse, for evil... Gosh, it is now even blatantly violitig it is own laws. What I do see exercising colonialism is by some member states, usually correlated with its own GDP and that they now shield themselves behind the EU flag. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago* (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] edel@lemmy.ml 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) I hear you Cowbee! I’ll be be reading that wiki page latter on today. But again, the regular European carpenter does not benefit from an “exploited” cheaper iron ore in the form of cheaper nails... Not even from cheaper wood, if anything, people will appreciate more wood and hire more carpenters to fix wood cabinets rather than dispose after being worn out... It is a complicated economy...Companies like Ikea do indeed benefit from exploitation, but not the Slovenian carpenter with a market with cheaper wood and cheaper nails. Now, you could go with that Ikea does benefit, so that those companies pay taxes that the carpenter will ultimately benefit from... I could see that, but, again, we know that these large corporation do not pay their fair taxes, let alone, compensate for the negative externalities they create, so i do see no net benefit to the average EU citizen on the exploitation their countries participate on. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] edel@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago I have to disagree here. The carpenter would ultimately had a similar quality of life with empire or without... Life in the west would be very different for sure, but i would not qualify it as worse. Consumerism would be replaced by a far more sustainable lifestyle and we would have replaced our incentives based on GDP long ago, but does not mean less quality of life, just a more just one. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] edel@lemmy.ml 1 point 1 year ago (2 children) That would be nice to debate, but I hardly see how that is possible. I see you posted that the EU does colonialism in Africa... The EU per se, only finances some NGOs that may have some hidden agenda but hardly substantial in those countries. The other EU's domain is to assign free trade agreements with the poorest countries, but I don't think it is conditional and hard to see as malicious. Now, the EU is clearly now exercising power well beyond its mandate and, what it is worse, for evil... Gosh, it is now even blatantly violitig it is own laws. What I do see exercising colonialism is by some member states, usually correlated with its own GDP and that they now shield themselves behind the EU flag. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago* (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] edel@lemmy.ml 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) I hear you Cowbee! I’ll be be reading that wiki page latter on today. But again, the regular European carpenter does not benefit from an “exploited” cheaper iron ore in the form of cheaper nails... Not even from cheaper wood, if anything, people will appreciate more wood and hire more carpenters to fix wood cabinets rather than dispose after being worn out... It is a complicated economy...Companies like Ikea do indeed benefit from exploitation, but not the Slovenian carpenter with a market with cheaper wood and cheaper nails. Now, you could go with that Ikea does benefit, so that those companies pay taxes that the carpenter will ultimately benefit from... I could see that, but, again, we know that these large corporation do not pay their fair taxes, let alone, compensate for the negative externalities they create, so i do see no net benefit to the average EU citizen on the exploitation their countries participate on. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] edel@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago I have to disagree here. The carpenter would ultimately had a similar quality of life with empire or without... Life in the west would be very different for sure, but i would not qualify it as worse. Consumerism would be replaced by a far more sustainable lifestyle and we would have replaced our incentives based on GDP long ago, but does not mean less quality of life, just a more just one. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago* (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] edel@lemmy.ml 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) I hear you Cowbee! I’ll be be reading that wiki page latter on today. But again, the regular European carpenter does not benefit from an “exploited” cheaper iron ore in the form of cheaper nails... Not even from cheaper wood, if anything, people will appreciate more wood and hire more carpenters to fix wood cabinets rather than dispose after being worn out... It is a complicated economy...Companies like Ikea do indeed benefit from exploitation, but not the Slovenian carpenter with a market with cheaper wood and cheaper nails. Now, you could go with that Ikea does benefit, so that those companies pay taxes that the carpenter will ultimately benefit from... I could see that, but, again, we know that these large corporation do not pay their fair taxes, let alone, compensate for the negative externalities they create, so i do see no net benefit to the average EU citizen on the exploitation their countries participate on. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] edel@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago I have to disagree here. The carpenter would ultimately had a similar quality of life with empire or without... Life in the west would be very different for sure, but i would not qualify it as worse. Consumerism would be replaced by a far more sustainable lifestyle and we would have replaced our incentives based on GDP long ago, but does not mean less quality of life, just a more just one. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] edel@lemmy.ml 1 point 1 year ago (1 child) I hear you Cowbee! I’ll be be reading that wiki page latter on today. But again, the regular European carpenter does not benefit from an “exploited” cheaper iron ore in the form of cheaper nails... Not even from cheaper wood, if anything, people will appreciate more wood and hire more carpenters to fix wood cabinets rather than dispose after being worn out... It is a complicated economy...Companies like Ikea do indeed benefit from exploitation, but not the Slovenian carpenter with a market with cheaper wood and cheaper nails. Now, you could go with that Ikea does benefit, so that those companies pay taxes that the carpenter will ultimately benefit from... I could see that, but, again, we know that these large corporation do not pay their fair taxes, let alone, compensate for the negative externalities they create, so i do see no net benefit to the average EU citizen on the exploitation their countries participate on. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] edel@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago I have to disagree here. The carpenter would ultimately had a similar quality of life with empire or without... Life in the west would be very different for sure, but i would not qualify it as worse. Consumerism would be replaced by a far more sustainable lifestyle and we would have replaced our incentives based on GDP long ago, but does not mean less quality of life, just a more just one. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] edel@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago I have to disagree here. The carpenter would ultimately had a similar quality of life with empire or without... Life in the west would be very different for sure, but i would not qualify it as worse. Consumerism would be replaced by a far more sustainable lifestyle and we would have replaced our incentives based on GDP long ago, but does not mean less quality of life, just a more just one. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] edel@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago I have to disagree here. The carpenter would ultimately had a similar quality of life with empire or without... Life in the west would be very different for sure, but i would not qualify it as worse. Consumerism would be replaced by a far more sustainable lifestyle and we would have replaced our incentives based on GDP long ago, but does not mean less quality of life, just a more just one. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml [S] 5 points 1 year ago Funnily enough the economies of all these countries are built on colonial exploitation of the Global South. All of them rely on cheap production in countries dominated by the west. Their economies are not self sufficient. permalink fedilink source parent