you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 16 points 1 year ago (9 children)

I suspect for some folks Stalin is bad because anyone else would have let the USSR capitulate to the wehrmacht invasion.

  • source
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I suspect for some folks Stalin is bad because [...]

    For most folks in the west, stalin is considered to be a brutal authoritarian dictator who made a deal with the nazis to carve up europe into spheres of influence. It should not be surprising to anyone that a lot of anarchists hold to that view, especially given stalin's view of anarchists (see below).

    We are not the kind of people who, when the word "anarchism" is mentioned, turn away contemptuously and say with a supercilious wave of the hand: "Why waste time on that, it's not worth talking about!" We think that such cheap "criticism" is undignified and useless.

    Nor are we the kind of people who console themselves with the thought that the Anarchists "have no masses behind them and, therefore, are not so dangerous." It is not who has a larger or smaller "mass" following today, but the essence of the doctrine that matters. If the "doctrine" of the Anarchists expresses the truth, then it goes without saying that it will certainly hew a path for itself and will rally the masses around itself. If, however, it is unsound and built up on a false foundation, it will not last long and will remain suspended in mid-air. But the unsoundness of anarchism must be proved.

    Some people believe that Marxism and anarchism are based on the same principles and that the disagreements between them concern only tactics, so that, in the opinion of these people, it is quite impossible to draw a contrast between these two trends.

    This is a great mistake.

    We believe that the Anarchists are real enemies of Marxism. Accordingly, we also hold that a real struggle must be waged against real enemies. Therefore, it is necessary to examine the "doctrine" of the Anarchists from beginning to end and weigh it up thoroughly from all aspects.

    So if I may ask you a question - if marxism and anarchism are fundamentally enemies, as stalin himself argued, why would any anarchist support the modern day ML penchant for rehabilitating stalin's reputation? It makes no sense. But sure, keep telling yourself anarchists hate stalin because of his virtues and not because of his other characteristics.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    keep telling yourself anarchists hate stalin because of his virtues and not because of his other characteristics.

    To be clear, those weren't the folks I was referring to in my comment. But:

    if I may ask you a question - if marxism and anarchism are fundamentally enemies, as stalin himself argued, why would any anarchist support the modern day ML penchant for rehabilitating stalin's reputation?

    Absolutely welcome to ask, and I'll give it a shot nonetheless.

    I would ask the anarchist (and the modern day ML too) if they agree with this part of Stalin's theory.

    I don't, and would venture to say a modern day ML may also disagree with Stalin in this but even also have a penchant for his rehabilitation, for other reasons.

    More tangentally I think anarchism and marxism are not fundamentally enemies, (so, in disagreement with Stalin here), and would suggest they primarily diverge on the role a state plays in mediating conflicts of private and public interests.

    But if I were to try and find common ground with the bit from Stalin you're citing, just for argument's sake, it would be that this divergence is a fundamental relationship between the two, but I'd still maintain the differences are not incompatible or irreconcileable.

    But again, for the record, I was being more snarky about people who pivot from talking about how Hitler could've won to how Stalin could've lost.

  • source
  • parent
  • [+] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    In total, anarchists should uphold the soviet experience, and disprove bourgeois framing of Stalin and the USSR. This weakens bourgeois cultural hegemony, strengthening both anarchist and Marxist movements. I know this was long, but I hope it was at least interesting to read!

    I appreciate the interesting read! Just been a bit hectic irl. Personally, I'm sympathetic to the fact that the West has collectively demonized the USSR with propaganda ever since 1917. Objectively, yes, the USSR achieved a lot in a very hostile environment, both military and economic, and they also did a lot of stuff I don't agree with, but that's not confined to the Soviets, of course.

    I guess I just don't see the point in the exercise though. You're never gonna get much traction trying to rehabilitate Stalin, because anti-Soviet propaganda is so deeply ingrained. Like why even fight that fight? You're gonna hit a brick wall every time, because it's a "toxic brand" of sorts. Arguing over Stalin's legacy feels genuinely counterproductive to me, compared to just advocating for community groups, socialism and direct action. I guess we are just coming at the same task from different angles. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    For most folks in the west, stalin is considered to be a brutal authoritarian dictator who made a deal with the nazis to carve up europe into spheres of influence.

    Do they not know of how the western leaders enabled the Nazis to carve up Czechoslovakia and opposed USSR's call for a united front against Nazis?

    The Molotov-Ribbentrop non-aggression pact, USSR happened after the Munich agreement where Britain, France and Italy came together to allow the Nazis and Poland to annex Czechoslovakia.

    And if you think there were no agreements before:
    1934 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Polish_declaration_of_non-aggression
    1935 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-German_Naval_Agreement
    1938 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement
    1939 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact

    And the next para from the text you quoted goes into the reasons, right? Searched with the text you shared and got this:

    The point is that Marxism and anarchism are built up on entirely different principles, in spite of the fact that both come into the arena of the struggle under the flag of socialism. The cornerstone of anarchism is the individual, whose emancipation, according to its tenets, is the principal condition for the emancipation of the masses, the collective body. According to the tenets of anarchism, the emancipation of the masses is impossible until the individual is emancipated. Accordingly, its slogan is: "Everything for the individual." The cornerstone of Marxism, however, is the masses, whose emancipation, according to its tenets, is the principal condition for the emancipation of the individual. That is to say, according to the tenets of Marxism, the emancipation of the individual is impossible until the masses are emancipated. Accordingly, its slogan is: "Everything for the masses."

    https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1906/12/x01.htm

    How do you see his critique? Do you think that anarchism cares less about wider social emancipation?
    I don't have much experience with literature on Anarchism(or Marxism, but relatively better there), so would be cool to know your opinions on it

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    How do you see his critique? Do you think that anarchism cares less about wider social emancipation?

    I don't think it's accurate. And no, definitely not. It seems like he is describing libertarians more than anarchists imo, as mutual aid and community building are core principles of anarchism.

  • source
  • parent
  • load more comments (-1 replies)