I forgot to set a reminder so I'm a little late getting to this, but here we are again:

Are you a "tankie"?

Respond "yes" or "no", I'll collate results later

This process is being undertaken to determine if so-called "tankies" are conspiring to make you (yes, you) have a bad time on the internet!

vague or informal answers will be interpreted by the central authority (me). Only top level comments will be counted. I will not be providing further instructions or clarifications.

🀯

Link to previous results (very serious) hexbear / lemmy,ml

Link to previous "are you a tankie?" thread

I'll likely check back in a week, my old pc died so itll take a little bit of time to prettify the results and write a report

Ciao, and of course, imperialism must be destroyed.

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[–] 28 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (25 children)

In that "tankie" is just a pejorative for a communist, yes. I'm a Marxist-Leninist, and I uphold AES as legitimate.

Workers of the world, unite! ☭

For those who don't know what a "tankie" is, it's essentially a pejorative for "communist." I recommend the Prolewiki article on "Tankies," as well as Nia Frome's essay "Tankies."

For those that want an introduction to Marxism-Leninism, I made an introductory Marxist-Leninist reading list, check it out!

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    What is AES in this context? I'm pretty sure it's not encryption or a corporation lol

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Actually Existing Socialism, countries like the PRC, Cuba, DPRK, Vietnam, Laos, former USSR, etc.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    I can see the difference between these and EU, but isn't EU mostly socialist? Like France for example, isn't it considered so? Assuming socialist β‰  Marxist.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    No, the EU is all capitalist, in every economy (even the nordics) private ownership is the principle aspect and governs the large firms and key industries. Financial capital and by extension imperialism are the dominant forces in society.

    In the countries I listed, it's the opposite, public ownership is at minimum the principle aspect. Some are more heavily publicly owned, like the DPRK and Cuba, and others have more market forces at play, like Vietnam and the PRC, but in all cases public ownership is principle.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    If I may ask: Does my country Algeria count as AES then ?

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Algeria is more complicated. It has had a long history of communists and socialist revolutionaries such as Frantz Fanon, but is currently a capitalist country. It's far better than imperialist countries like France, and has been very progressive in opposing imperialism and colonialism, but isn't considered socialist.

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  • [+] -17 points 1 year ago (13 children)

    Tankie is a pejorative for authoritarians that advocate violence to further their political aims. The particular ideology is just window dressing.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago* (5 children)

    George Washington is a Tankie. Hitler is a Tankie. Makhno is a Tankie. Elon Musk is a Tankie. Etc.

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  • [+] -20 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Obviously, the term "tankie" is only applied to the left. My point was that in that respect there is not really any difference between the extremes of the political spectrum. You could even say they converge in some way.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    No, horseshoe theory is just liberalism trying to distance itself from fascism, when historically liberalism abd fascism correspond to capitalism doing okay and capitalism in crisis respectively.

    Further, liberalism has also been responsible for mass violence, both the progressive kind such as in the French revolution, and the horribly reactionary kind when it comes to slavery, colonialism, genocide of Palestine, etc.

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  • [+] -22 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Redefining words and whataboutism. Name a more iconic duo.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago*

    What words did I redefine? What "whataboutism" did I do? I explained very clearly why your definition is bad, and applies to everyone. Comparison is not "whataboutism" inherently.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

    You've expanded the definition to include nearly everyone. All states are authoritarian, in that they are all instruments by which one class wields its authority over other classes. Revolution is the most authoritarian action there is, as was liberating the slaves in Haiti, the Statesian south, etc. You've erased any analysis of what these political aims are, essentially saying only pacifists have validity, and historically pacifists have been some of the least effective, or even damaging to their movements.

    The communists that wish the working class to wield that authority wield it for progressive means, and in the interest of the people. Eventually, when class is abolished, even the state itself will be too.

    I suggest you read the articles I linked, you can read both in the span of ~15 minutes and you'll have a much better understanding of what "tankie" means.

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  • [+] -12 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Your theory has just one minor flaw: every violent revolution ever has resulted in one clique of repressive assholes being replaced with another. And every time they've betrayed every ideal they ever did it didn't have in order to cling on to power. How is your revolution going to be different?

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    Your comment has one major flaw: it's wrong.

    Revolution in France, for example, ovethrew an oppressive monarchy. Napoleon took power, but it was still an improvement, and in the long run was even better. In Haiti, slavery was overthrown, in Algeria colonialism was overthrown. These are just for national liberation movements and general revolution.

    Socialist revolution in Russia, China, Cuba, Vietnam, Laos, Korea, and more have all dramatically improved key metrics like life expectancy, dramatically democratized society, increased literacy rates, and lowered disparity while dramatically developing society. Socialism achieves far better metrics at similar levels of wealth and development, even in the face of brutal sanctions.

    There is no "betrayal of ideals," there's the real process of existing in the world and facing real struggles. Socialism isn't magic or perfect, it's simply a much better economic system than capitalism. It isn't immune to problems or struggles, and it doesn't gift those running the economy with prophetic visions. Liberal anti-communists hold socialism to a higher standard than liberal systems, refusing it outright if it isn't heaven on Earth, and call it a "betrayal" if it isn't immediately a perfect wonderland while giving liberalism a pass, or mild critique.

    I expect revolution in the US Empire to go a similar way, only that it won't be at risk of being nuked or sanctioned to death by the US Empire.

    I highly suggest doing more research on the topic at hand, I can make recommendations if you want.

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  • [+] -11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    So having all of Europe drenched in blood by Napoleon was an improvement? And you conveniently forgot the terror. Similar things could be said about your other examples. The rest is just assertions without evidence so I'll have to pull Hitchens' razor.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago

    THERE were two β€œReigns of Terror,” if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the β€œhorrors” of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terrorβ€”that unspeakably bitter and awful Terror which none of us has been taught to see in its vastness or pity as it deserves.

    -Mark Twain

    In the end, moving beyond feudalism to capitalism was progressive, just as moving on beyond capitalism to socialism was and is progressive. This is rarely bloodless, but it pales in comparison to the daily violence of the present system.

    Secondly, I did offer evidence upon request, I find when I just dump sources people tune out. If you have specific questions, I can back them up with answers and evidence, otherwise the lack of evidence applies just as much to you.

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