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Hollow Knight: Silksong devs address difficulty concerns: “You have choices” (www.dexerto.com)
submitted 1 year ago by to c/games@sh.itjust.works
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[–] 5 points 1 year ago (17 children)

Let me fill up the negative space in that comment...I want Silksong to be hard. I want to do things dozens of times before succeeding, I want to struggle then overcome

It's all skill based. You get better, your character gives you more breathing room, but ultimately you have to learn and overcome each new challenge

And that feels amazing, it's not for everyone but I don't want a way to make it easier... It would cheapen the experience to even have the option

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Agree but man it is punishing to get smacked back to a bench 6 screens back.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    That's the point?

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Are tedium and difficulty the same thing?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    No, they're not, and that is the whole point.

    If you could die a hundred times and never lose any progress, Pharloom wouldn't feel dangerous or unwelcoming.

    This feeling you get when you're running around an uncharted area is tied to the risk of being sent back, not the difficulty of the enemies in said area.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (8 children)

    Other people having the option to tailor the game to their skill level does nothing to your experience of the game. If other people having access cheapens the experience for you, you have issues.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    This game isn't made for them, it's made for me. It's the full package, it's amazingly well balanced, and truly a lovingly crafted work of art

    If you want to mod the game to make it easier, I have no problem with you, or people who use it

    But I don't want a win button in my wonderfully challenging game. I don't want this to be ruined with temptation. That's what would cheapen the experience

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (6 children)

    Cool, so you have issues.

    Just because the button exists doesn't mean you have to use it. The game isn't made for any one person, it is made for a variety of people with differing skill levels and physical capabilities. The existence of accessibility features does not cheapen your experience, if they do you have issues.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    If you make every game for everyone, you make slop

    I don't care if you can enjoy it without putting the effort I put in. I just don't want a way for myself to make it easier. That's it.

    Fuck off, this is a masterpiece and I love it so much I've developed a new callous on my thumb and had to take a day off. I've overcome every challenge, I've dealt with the frustration, and victory was all the sweeter for that.

    I don't care what you do or don't enjoy, don't fuck with my game. I don't care if you watch a playthrough or mod the game so you can enjoy the story.

    I'm not being elitist, I'm pissed because people are trying to ruin the masterfully crafted artistic vision of the best game I've played in years

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (4 children)

    Cool. So I guess people like me with neuropathy should fuck off so people like you can get a boost of perceived superiority because God forbid they put a slider for slowing game speed or other such settings so people like me with physical limitations can adjust the challenge to our capabilities.

    The existence of OPTIONAL difficulty settings has nothing to do with your experience of the game. If you don't opt into using them, your game experience is literally no different than if they didn't exist at all.

    Yes, you in fact are being elitist. The way other people are able to experience the game has NOTHING to do with your experience. Be proud of your experiences for what they are, not how they compare to others' experiences.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    No, you should have a button through the workshop where you can add mods to slow down the game, take less damage, or whatever else you want or need. Let people rebalance the whole damn game if they want, if that makes you enjoy the game I'm happy for you

    It should made easier then it is right now with proper workshop integration so it can be done in just a couple clicks. I'd support calling for that

    What I don't want is for team cherry to be pressured to change the game. It's amazing as is, it's extremely well thought out in how it challenges you even as the difficulty people complain about prepares you for future challenges. But people who will never enjoy it for what it is instantly demand it be watered down

    You think a speed slider is going to make this game accessible? That's not how this game works. This game is impossible at every challenge until it isn't. That is the game. It's rhythm and reaction, if you can do it slow you can do it normally

    If I didn't have a friend who played smash with three fingers and his hip on a heavily modded controller, I wouldn't have the instincts to be able to play this game. He kicked my ass every time, despite nerve palsy that left him with half of one working hand

    This game is not for everyone. And I don't mean because of abilities... I'm not that good of a gamer. This game is for people who don't accept their limits

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (2 children)

    I played on PS5. No mods for me. Literally, my entire argument is that those features that mods provide should be pre-baked into the game. Would be better if console gaming was able to be modded in the first place so that burden didn't fall to the devs but company interests prevent that from ever happening but that's a whole other topic.

    Silksong has an amazing structure and design. It really is like a song. The enemy patterns are well thought out. The level design is amazing with Bosses that are unique, with each area having their own key they are played in. The moves are precise yet varied with the different crests, a plethora of instruments to choose from (even if you do have to go looking for them). Top tier Metroidvania once again by Team Cherry. It has a good flow if you can find it and get into that loop of "explore, stock up, boss, repeat steps 2 and 3 until boss defeated or skip to step 5 if hitting a wall, cleanup, backtrack" of the genre. Yet, songs can be played at different tempos. Games need to let people play at their tempo so they are able to catch the rhythm.

    Like, I'm not saying "items need to be cheaper" or to remove the rosary system because "it's dump to lose all your currency and have it stuck somewhere" when you have the ability to stock up through the string stations.

    I have CMT. My nerves are fucked because of it. One of the symptoms is that my nerve speed is significantly slowed due to a faulty protein in the myelin sheath. No matter how hard I try, I will never regain the reaction speed or dexterity. I used to be an amazing guitarist. I was a top tier fighting gamer on MK and Soul Calibur.

    Now? After years of the disease progressing. I physically will never be able to pull off the things I used to do in my youth. Yet I still enjoy these games because they have difficulty settings. In competitive, I'm matched with people of my skill level. Also, with friends, handicaps exist for a reason. MK has input timing options for the special moves and options for precision on button press and if it's a negative edge or not.

    With Metroidvanias, no matter how much I loved playing them in my youth, I'll never be able to play the older ones that don't have difficulty settings unless I play them in an emulator. Newer ones I can't play unless they have difficulty settings for things like parry timings, game speed, or sensitivity settings for aiming.

    So yes, I do physically need difficulty settings that adjust game timings in the games I play if they are required. This isn't My Hero Academia or Dragon Ball. I can't just go Plus Ultra or surpass my limits by screaming really loud until my hair turns blonde.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Ok, but like... You could be having the experience you want if you plugged your current controller into a computer (not even a particularly high powered one for this game), spent an hour or two messing around with it, and if you struggle with the modding process people would help you? I've found a mod that does exactly what you want on nexus mods, it changes the game speed on the fly

    Link if you're interested

    I'm not being elitist when I say you can't make a game for everyone... You literally cannot. You can't be the same handful of people who spent 7 years polishing every aspect of a game to tune it just right, then also keep track of a granular set of difficulty sliders throughout the process. These are incompatible design philosophies, you can't make a game like Silksong like that

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Don't have a computer to play from. Literally, it is not an option. You're just fishing for excuses now.

    Like, yes, you're kinda still being elitist. I'm just going to end this with "agree to disagree" cause I've given you as much logic as possible but you still won't see reason.

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